5heaps wrote:Is your yogic direct perception not a direct perception?
remember that its a different system so cognition works a little differently, direct perception means something a little different, the definition of pramana is slightly different, etc.
in one sense we have never had a direct perception since everything we know is established through the power of thought and ignorance. in another sense we have "direct" perceptions, namely when objects are apprehended without the use of reasoning. this is an important point because logical signs therefore count as "direct" perceptions, since they are not lines of reasoning but can be incontrovertible and discerning mental images which realize their objects accurately and without delay, if they themselves are accurate enough.
yogic conventionalities are seen using the mental consciousness not with yogic direct perceivers. the clairvoyances for example are done with the mental consciousness (there is some debate about it), whereas yogic direct perception is used for ultimate truth. but, just like vipashyana, its not just for ultimate truth, it can also be for the 4 arya truths, dependent arising, etc.
although this may all seems technical it becomes easy once we understand basic pramana, since all this stuff is just extrapolation and refinement of the basics -- figuring out what is wrong with the basics.
What should I say. This is perhaps according to this above incorporation of Dignaga and Dharmakırti with Gelug Prasangika where yogic direct "perception" somehow is using the ultimate
For me it is mystery or paradox because I'm not able to understand (my fault maybe, sorry
) For me yogic direct "perception" is useful until all perception collapse because of mental nonengagement. Let's come back to original Yogacara. Asanga "Maitreya’s Distinguishing Phenomena and Pure Being. with The Commentary by Mipham Jamyang Namgyal (1846-1912), transl. Jim Scott under the guidance of Khenpo Tsültrim Gyamtso Rinpoche ":
And one effect relates to appearances’ absence,
Where duality, assumption and formulation,
Faculties, objects, principles of awareness,
And vessel-like worlds’ appearances are absent;
So these correspond to there being no observation,
No description, no ground and no appearances,
No principles of awareness, and no place,
Which is how the sutras express the traits
Defining original nonconceptual wisdom;
And one effect relates to an attainment of nonconceptual wisdom where
appearances are completely absent, that is to say, where the following have in
all aspects and in every way subsided:
• What appears to the nonconceptual sensory faculty as a duality of perceived
• The process of formulation conducted by the rational mind, which is
conceptual and first makes the assumption that whatever appears to be
a duality actually exists that way and then formulates it by assigning a
specific term; this is a process which is internal and equivalent to the
rational mind’s conceptualization of percept and perceiver
• The inner faculties, that of the eye and so on
• Outer objects, form and so on
• The principles of awareness, the eye consciousness, and so on
• Vessel-like worlds’ appearances experienced in common.
Since these are all absent
, suchness free of all these types of differentiation
appears in its one taste. This is what is referred to as “the subsiding of dualistic
appearance into emptiness.”...
Hence, wisdom devoid of appearances is one which transcends the parameters
defining appearance as described above and is itself the clear light, allpervasive
as space. This is called “nonconceptual original wisdom free of
appearance.” It is essentially beyond consciousness
and is thus not restricted
to any domain whatsoever, whether that of the composite, the non-composite
or any other. Since this means original wisdom itself does not fall
into the category of appearances, it is not something distinct from pure
being but is its intrinsic luminous clarity....
Because it rests in suchness, the abiding nature free of overestimation and denial wherein the
two truths are inseparable
, it eliminates all wrong views, which fixate on