pemachophel wrote:"They can't get the experience because they don't have the retreat experience, and yet they can't go on the retreats because they don't have the money or the cost to do the retreats."
The real hermitage is within our own heart-mind. One can be "in retreat" and yet our mind is busy in samsara. One can be seemingly busy in samsara and yet our mind is merged with the practice/the Guru's wisdom mind 24/7. The outer situation is not the key. It's the inner situation that divides between one being realized or an ordinary sentient being.
" Although the Buddha had great wisdom at birth,
He sat in training for six years; although Bodhidharma
Transmitted the Buddha Mind, we still hear the echoes of his
nine years facing a wall. The Ancestors were very diligent.."
From the Fukan Zazengi -Eihei Dogen
Maybe it's just a Zen thing, but I still believe people need more than just their own understanding of the Heart-Mind. ; )
A great breakthrough is wonderful, but one still has to train. Living a retreat full time is quite different than doing one for a week or weekend.
You are right that we should sit still in every moment as best we can, however we still need training time and experience to help us to learn to do that.
An experience of the Heart-Mind helps oneself, but that does not make one qualified or experienced enough to help others.
Well people do have to eat sometime. "We eat lest we become lean and die". If the people you are training with don't seem to take it seriously though, maybe you should consider training elsewhere. Though, I don't think polite socialization stands against training. We are social human beings after all. But if a more serious tempo is what you are seeking, I would suggest a different training center. There are places where people take it quite seriously, though still with a light heart.I have gone to many retreats and drubchen in America and Asia. In both places, during the breaks, I see most people rushing outside to eat, drink, and gossip, totally forgetting their pure vision. Those practitioners who truly devote their entire lives to the practice of Dharma, regardless of their ethnicity, place, or station in life, will eventually radiate the unmistakable glow of wisdom and compassion, and, sensing that, others will ask them for their help. That is how true Gurus are made, not some official ceremony or bestowal of some title.
A title isn't supposed to be about ego, it's supposed to be a certification of experience, that guarantee's the listener that the person speaking has at least some idea what they are talking about.
Well as I said before "realization" is only a part of it. The ongoing training that comes after realization may even perhaps be more important.IOW, if we want more Western Lamas, each of us needs to really carry the practice on the daily path of our lives. Money or no money, neither is an obstacle to realization if one wants it bad enough.
It's not enough just to have an experience of enlightenment. That's just the beginning of spiritual adulthood. One still needs to train and practice.
"Going, going, going on beyond, and always going on beyond, always BECOMING Buddha, Hail, Hail, Hail!"
A teacher or Lama degree or certification is supposed to say that they have enough training experience that their practice is stable, or relatively so. Beyond just having an experience of the Heart-Mind,
And they are versed in the Dharma, and the methods of that linage and can teach it, including knowing which pitfalls to avoid, and how to identify and correct mistakes, and nurture and grow training and practice in their students, and to help them grow into full fruition.
That's why the formal training time is important. It also give's their own teacher time to mentor and instruct them as well, and help get them stable and train and get them ready to teach others.
But maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.