Question for you guys
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Question for you guys
Let's say I go to all the Lamas out there with the following request:
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
Which Lamas would say yes?
If none, then of all the Lamas that don't simply say, "No," which Lama(s) would be most likely to give me an interesting and useful answer?
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
Which Lamas would say yes?
If none, then of all the Lamas that don't simply say, "No," which Lama(s) would be most likely to give me an interesting and useful answer?
- conebeckham
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Re: Question for you guys
Any Lama I've studied with would say neither "yes" nor "no," but would like give you an answer that would make you re-think your question in the first place.
And rightly so.
And rightly so.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Question for you guys
My lama would probably say "Yes, but what's the point? How will it help you in your practice? Besides, unless you have the requisite foundation, you will not understand my secrets."
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Re: Question for you guys
I think I will try it. Know of any Lamas that are easily accessible in the Washington D.C. area?conebeckham wrote:Any Lama I've studied with would say neither "yes" nor "no," but would like give you an answer that would make you re-think your question in the first place.
And rightly so.
Don't care if they are famous or have high attainments.
I would say: I don't know how useful they are until I know what those secrets are. And I assume you don't know if I would understand until after you've told me. So, why not tell me something and we will see.Sherab wrote:My lama would probably say "Yes, but what's the point? How will it help you in your practice? Besides, unless you have the requisite foundation, you will not understand my secrets."
Re: Question for you guys
Won't work, because my lama/guru reads my mind and even my future like a book.Individual wrote:I would say: I don't know how useful they are until I know what those secrets are. And I assume you don't know if I would understand until after you've told me. So, why not tell me something and we will see.Sherab wrote:My lama would probably say "Yes, but what's the point? How will it help you in your practice? Besides, unless you have the requisite foundation, you will not understand my secrets."
Re: Question for you guys
Yeah, that's the thing about the great masters. They see right through your shtick.
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Re: Question for you guys
Really? So he doesn't do something like I-Ching, tarot cards, or gaze through blurry images in fire, smoke. or crystal, in order to make ambiguous observations which could broadly apply to many people in many situations?Sherab wrote:Won't work, because my lama/guru reads my mind and even my future like a book.Individual wrote:I would say: I don't know how useful they are until I know what those secrets are. And I assume you don't know if I would understand until after you've told me. So, why not tell me something and we will see.Sherab wrote:My lama would probably say "Yes, but what's the point? How will it help you in your practice? Besides, unless you have the requisite foundation, you will not understand my secrets."
Also, my question remains: Know of any Lamas that are easily accessible in the Washington D.C. area?
Not including Jetsunma Akhon Llamo. She probably wouldn't be "easily accessible," anyway -- not to her own students.
Re: Question for you guys
Nothing of the sorts.Individual wrote:Really? So he doesn't do something like I-Ching, tarot cards, or gaze through blurry images in fire, smoke. or crystal, in order to make ambiguous observations which could broadly apply to many people in many situations?
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Re: Question for you guys
What about using intoxicants or meditative trances or spirit-writing in order to make incoherent metaphors which require an elaborate and highly personalized interpretation?Sherab wrote:Nothing of the sorts.Individual wrote:Really? So he doesn't do something like I-Ching, tarot cards, or gaze through blurry images in fire, smoke. or crystal, in order to make ambiguous observations which could broadly apply to many people in many situations?
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5715
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: Question for you guys
Nah, that's what I have to do when I read your posts in order to understand them!What about using intoxicants or meditative trances or spirit-writing in order to make incoherent metaphors which require an elaborate and highly personalized interpretation?
Kidding, kidding.
I'll try to find a Lama in the DC area...seriously.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Question for you guys
Shucks, you beat me to it.conebeckham wrote:Nah, that's what I have to do when I read your posts in order to understand them!What about using intoxicants or meditative trances or spirit-writing in order to make incoherent metaphors which require an elaborate and highly personalized interpretation?
Re: Question for you guys
So, we found the fifth one...Nah, that's what I have to do when I read your posts in order to understand them!What about using intoxicants or meditative trances or spirit-writing in order to make incoherent metaphors which require an elaborate and highly personalized interpretation?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."
Re: Question for you guys
But seriously...why are some so accessible and others seemingly portray a 'hard to get' or 'now you see me, now you don't' image besides the busy schedule thingy?
I read that HHDL and even the late HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche makes themselves quite accessible...
I read that HHDL and even the late HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche makes themselves quite accessible...
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Re: Question for you guys
I changed my mind.conebeckham wrote: Kidding, kidding.
I'll try to find a Lama in the DC area...seriously.
Don't misinterpret that, though. Tell me of a Lama near Washington D.C. and I still might go.
Because they're Hina-Lamas. Maha-Lamas don't live in caves or forest temples and broadcast their teachings by webcast and e-mail.plwk wrote:But seriously...why are some so accessible and others seemingly portray a 'hard to get' or 'now you see me, now you don't' image besides the busy schedule thingy?
I read that HHDL and even the late HH Dilgo Kyentse Rinpoche makes themselves quite accessible...
Re: Question for you guys
Which secrets? (possibly response)Individual wrote:Let's say I go to all the Lamas out there with the following request:
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
Which Lamas would say yes?
If none, then of all the Lamas that don't simply say, "No," which Lama(s) would be most likely to give me an interesting and useful answer?
Sure, just hang around 30-40 years, no strings attached, by the way you know anything about fund-raising or architecture? (possible response)
Yes, (very long silence), did you get it? (possible response)
Sorry, no English (possible response)
Exactly what kind of obligations do you want to avoid and why? (possible response)
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Question for you guys
You seem to really have a bone to pick with Vajrayana. Makes me wonder why you'd even be interested.Individual wrote: Because they're Hina-Lamas. Maha-Lamas don't live in caves or forest temples and broadcast their teachings by webcast and e-mail.
Pema Rigdzin/Brian Pittman
Re: Question for you guys
What exactly do you mean by the term "obligations"? Do you mean samaya vows? Spending lots of time? Spending lots of money?Individual wrote:Let's say I go to all the Lamas out there with the following request:
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
If you want to avoid samaya, I don't think that's possible because that is part of the tradition of Tantric Buddhism. Sure, maybe you can find someone who is not really a lama who has "gone renegade" and will teach you things while avoiding many important traditions and prerequisites, but I don't think the outcome of learning from such a person would be very good.
If you meant, the second two, then I think it's possible. Some lamas (especially it seems Nyingma lamas) will teach some very deep things right from the start. Many modern lamas are quite kind with regard to people's schedules and have weekend and one-week retreats and don't demand that people do one-month or many-month retreats.
Individual, I understand your desire to do this, but please be polite to any lama you meet. You should not approach him like he's a completely ordinary man like the santa claus working at your local mall at Christmas time and say something like, "Give me the damn present already, ya fat SOB!" Treating a lama badly will produce a lot of negative karma for yourself. It's always important to be respectful to those who have dedicated their lives to the Three Jewels, even if you disagree with some of their ideas.
Anyway, once I observed a teaching about a completion stage sadhana done from the Dzogchen point of view by mistake (It wasn't clear to me that I didn't have the necessary prerequisites beforehand), and far from being a great revelation of secrets, the teaching was quite meaningless to me. Advanced teachings won't be meaningful until you are truly ready for them. And even then, if you don't have the patience to wait to receive those teachings, then you probably won't have the patience to practice those advanced meditations consistently enough to get great results from them. Spending a week or even a month learning Tummo won't instantly turn you into a Buddha. A lot of work is still required.
If you want a great and powerful teaching which is readily available and which doesn't require a long retreat, I would recommend attending a Nyungne sometime. Perhaps you might still say, "Well, that's still not the very highest type of meditation," but I would say that Nyungne is plenty "high-enough" for an ordinary person. Nyungne is a truly Tantric Buddhist meditation which produces great benefits in a short amount of time. Of course, one Nyungne requires over 24 hours of total fasting from food and water, but if you don't have the resolve to even do that, then you shouldn't even be messing around with the path of the yogi to begin with.
Everybody wants something for nothing, but that's never how life works. Great results require great causes, or as economists say, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
Re: Question for you guys
I guess when he says "no" you found the right one
Sometimes a small lie is good for you benefit. But as you are open minded prefer the honest.
Sometimes a small lie is good for you benefit. But as you are open minded prefer the honest.
Just that!
Re: Question for you guys
There are no actual secrets. The highest teaching is ultimate compassion - compassion for all beings everywhere all the time and ultimate wisdom - which is that all beings are Buddhas (although putting this in words is slippery) - and the inseparability of ultimate wisdom and compassion. The only reason we don't see it is because our minds are obscured by delusion. All of Tibetan Buddhism without exception is medicine to address our sickness of the lack of compassion and/or the lack of wisdom and to attain Buddhahood very quickly so that we don't have to spend 3 eons accumulating wisdom and merit in order to attain Buddhahood (it's true that most of these methods are secret but they are all just trainings in wisdom and compassion).Individual wrote:Let's say I go to all the Lamas out there with the following request:
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
The lamas tell us all this on Day 1 (at least the compassion part). The secrecy part is to help us from misunderstanding the details of the teachings and from misusing the teachings. And we all invariably go back to our karmically induced patterns guaranteed to produced more suffering and delusion for ourself and others.
As for obligations - there are always obligations - you always have the obligation to help create a real Buddha realm (help others), you always have the obligation to reduce your delusion and to deeper your compassion and wisdom.
As for lamas in the DC area: there is Khenpo Kalsang Gyaltsen at Sakya Phuntsok Ling in Silver Spring (there is also a visiting Khenpo there now) (http://www.sakyatemple.org/spl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and Khenchen Tsewang Gyatso will be visiting the Palyul center in Old Town Alexandria from Thanksgiving until 1 Dec (http://usa.palyul.org/sched-ktgr.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). There are also the Drikung Lamas out in Frederick, MD (http://www.drikungtmc.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) who sometimes also have events/teachings closer in toward DC.
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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Re: Question for you guys
Samaya vows and money, yes. I am already a slave to my own mind. I would gain nothing from being a slave to someone else.Luke wrote:What exactly do you mean by the term "obligations"? Do you mean samaya vows? Spending lots of time? Spending lots of money?Individual wrote:Let's say I go to all the Lamas out there with the following request:
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
As for time, not yes or no. I would be willing to spend my time voluntarily, not as a requirement.
A present?Luke wrote: Individual, I understand your desire to do this, but please be polite to any lama you meet. You should not approach him like he's a completely ordinary man like the santa claus working at your local mall at Christmas time and say something like, "Give me the damn present already, ya fat SOB!" Treating a lama badly will produce a lot of negative karma for yourself. It's always important to be respectful to those who have dedicated their lives to the Three Jewels, even if you disagree with some of their ideas.
Hanzze wrote:I guess when he says "no" you found the right one
Sometimes a small lie is good for you benefit. But as you are open minded prefer the honest.
If that is true, it seems to me that is the secret. If anybody including Tibetan Buddhists knew it, they would not take their Lamas and esoteric practices seriously. Not taking them as seriously, there would be no gain.kirtu wrote:There are no actual secrets. The highest teaching is ultimate compassion - compassion for all beings everywhere all the time and ultimate wisdom - which is that all beings are Buddhas (although putting this in words is slippery) - and the inseparability of ultimate wisdom and compassion. The only reason we don't see it is because our minds are obscured by delusion. All of Tibetan Buddhism without exception is medicine to address our sickness of the lack of compassion and/or the lack of wisdom and to attain Buddhahood very quickly so that we don't have to spend 3 eons accumulating wisdom and merit in order to attain Buddhahood (it's true that most of these methods are secret but they are all just trainings in wisdom and compassion).Individual wrote:Let's say I go to all the Lamas out there with the following request:
"I wish to know all your secrets, without having any obligations."
The lamas tell us all this on Day 1 (at least the compassion part). The secrecy part is to help us from misunderstanding the details of the teachings and from misusing the teachings. And we all invariably go back to our karmically induced patterns guaranteed to produced more suffering and delusion for ourself and others.
As for obligations - there are always obligations - you always have the obligation to help create a real Buddha realm (help others), you always have the obligation to reduce your delusion and to deeper your compassion and wisdom.
As for lamas in the DC area: there is Khenpo Kalsang Gyaltsen at Sakya Phuntsok Ling in Silver Spring (there is also a visiting Khenpo there now) (http://www.sakyatemple.org/spl/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and Khenchen Tsewang Gyatso will be visiting the Palyul center in Old Town Alexandria from Thanksgiving until 1 Dec (http://usa.palyul.org/sched-ktgr.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). There are also the Drikung Lamas out in Frederick, MD (http://www.drikungtmc.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) who sometimes also have events/teachings closer in toward DC.
Kirt