Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

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Inge
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Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Inge »

So many people speak about samaya, but it is my impression that they, like me, have no idea what samaya really is.
I have never read a satisfactory explanation, neither in books, nor online. Nor have I heard any teacher explain this properly.

In your knowledge, what exactly is samaya?
KonchokZoepa
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by KonchokZoepa »

Garchen Rinpoche says that the main samaya is to have love and compassion to all sentient beings.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by KonchokZoepa »

Samaya is Love

H.E. Garchen Rinpoche
August 7, 2010

The root of vajrayana practice is the samaya.

Many of my senior disciples know about that, but there may be some new disciples, and so the samaya, the root of samaya or the actual samaya, is love, and that love is a bond that keeps
us connected throughout many lifetimes.

That is a bond between disciples and disciples, and lamas and disciples, and so forth. If we do not let this bond pass, if we do not interrupt this bond of love, which is the samaya, then from lifetime to lifetime in the future we will meet again and benefit and help each other.

For others, if we cut that samaya, that bond of love with each other, then we can only harm each other in the future.

And so the samaya between disciple and disciple and disciple and lama is very precious and important. It is necessary that we observe this samaya and not allow it to be interrupted—also because throughout all time we have had this positive samaya.

That is why in this lifetime, sharing the connection of practicing the Vajrayana together,and in order to benefit each other again and again in the future, it is important that all of us observe our samaya, that we do not give rise to anger and jealousy toward each other.

And, as it is taught in the tantras, if we observe our samaya,
then we will obtain the highest siddhis within seven lifetimes.
of course you receive other samaya commitments via different empowerments. that are like vow's on top of the root samayas. and i think this what Garchen Rinpoche said is the essence of samaya but there are other viewpoints also worth mentioning, like proper conduct and behavior towards vajra master's and brothers and sisters etc.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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futerko
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by futerko »

For me, Samaya is a two-way commitment to uphold the teachings, i.e. for the student, a commitment to practice.
narraboth
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by narraboth »

Inge wrote:So many people speak about samaya, but it is my impression that they, like me, have no idea what samaya really is.
I have never read a satisfactory explanation, neither in books, nor online. Nor have I heard any teacher explain this properly.

In your knowledge, what exactly is samaya?
samaya in brief, is vows that shouldn't ever be violated or broken.
there definitely are books, and it's quite a good topic to study.
there are 'three disciplines (vows) commentary' in Sakya and Nyingma school, which list all the vows people should follow at different stages.

For vajrayana, it is said that there are 100000 or more vows for anuttarayoga, but in very brief you can summorize them to body speech and mind, and to be a bit more precize you need to at least study 14 root downfalls, 8 rough violates, 5 families vows; you also need to keep basic bodhisattva vows if you think you are a vajrayana practioner, as no vajrayana practice can happen without bodhisattva vows as base. Bodhisattva vows have two traditions, Nagajuna system and Matriya system. Also, there is no vajrayana practice without very basic paramoksha vows, eg. no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct etc.

So as far as I know, what samaya is for anyone who kind of seriously want to follow vajrayana path, it will be:
1. five paramoksa vows at least
2. bodhisattva vows
3. depends on which level of tantra you follows. If kriya tantra, it's basically just 1. and 2., maybe plus a little bit extra requirements. For anuttarayoga tantra, you have to know 14 downfalls etc.

It's common that masters only give brief explanation after empowerment. Maybe because they don't have time, maybe because there are some people who just come to get connection rather than really want to get into practice. But in anyway I can't imagine someone who truly wants to become an anuttaratoga practioner doesn't need to follow 14 root vows etc.
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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by conebeckham »

You should get a copy of "Buddhist Ethics" which is the volume of Kongtrul's encyclopedia where he outlines, in detail, the various types and systems of samaya.

It's a big subject, with no easy answer, but basically it means "commitment," and depending on one's practice and one's relationship to lineage and teacher, the details will vary.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
ngodrup
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by ngodrup »

Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the three vows, a commentary by H. H. Dudjom Rinpoche
on the root text by Ngari Panchen.

Samaya applies mainly between disciple and master, and between vajra siblings where
empowerment has been taken. Of course, it extends beyond that too, but--
no samaya, no vajrayana; no empowerment, so samaya. You may have a teacher for example
who doesn't give wangs-- in that case, no samaya unless you are both disciples of the same Lama.
On the other hand, nearly everybody has taken empowerment from HH the Dalai Lama for example...
Something to consider.
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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by conebeckham »

http://www.shambhala.com/the-treasury-o ... -five.html

More about Samaya than you ever wanted to know......heh heh.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Wayfarer
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Wayfarer »

Samaya is simply your meditation practice and the other things you do to support that. If you get up in the morning and sit, that is samaya. It is similar to 'sadhana' which means 'means of accomplishing' or 'means of crossing over'.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by conebeckham »

I feel that's incorrect.

Samaya means "commitment." It's not merely about commitment to a formal practice period. For example, a HYT samaya is to "not disparage women." Now, that seems a bit quaint...but for the time, it was pretty radical. And how about "Maintaining a Bell And Vajra?" That is another HYT samaya.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Wayfarer
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Wayfarer »

As a matter of interest, is there any equivalence between 'samaya' and 'sadhana'? The latter is more associated with Yoga-Vedanta, but it means ' to practice something as a discipline, in order to learn from it, and make it a regular life habit.' I would have thought the meanings were equivalent.
'Only practice with no gaining idea' ~ Suzuki Roshi
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Karma Dorje
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Karma Dorje »

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
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Konchog1
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Konchog1 »

Samaya or pledges are things that you promise the deity to do during empowerment. Samvara or vows are things that you promise not to do. One of the common samaya is to keep your Samvara.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Inge
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Inge »

Thanks for the input, and reading recommendations.

I've earlier read "Perfect Conduct: Ascertaining the three vows, a commentary" by H. H. Dudjom Rinpoche. It did not clarify things for me at that time.

I have started to study "Buddhist Ethics", hopefully it is explained in a way that I can understand in that book.
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heart
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by heart »

Konchog1 wrote:Samaya or pledges are things that you promise the deity to do during empowerment. Samvara or vows are things that you promise not to do. One of the common samaya is to keep your Samvara.
You promise the guru, not the deity.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
montana
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by montana »

Samaya is the promises that make our behavior match the deities and binds us together.

There are many many many different articulations of samaya, but the essence of it is the same if the vows come from a valid transmitter of the deity.

I added that "if" because there are some ego maniacs giving modified vows for the purpose of manipulating the unlucky people that mistook them for a vow holder and took vows.
If you took vows from one of these ego maniacs, you can't break samaya with them because they don't represent the deity(or triple gem).
People caught in one of these traps worry they'll be faulting the deities if they leave their ego maniac lama, but that's not the case.
In fact, your connection with the deities will become stronger when you leave because what you were doing under that ego lama was distancing you from them.
jigmeeaton
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by jigmeeaton »

This book also helps clarify samaya:
Treasury of Precious Qualities: Book Two by Jigme Lingpa
T. Chokyi
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by T. Chokyi »

Inge wrote:samaya?
In addition to some of the books others have posted
I found these pages useful over the years.

Common Root Tantric Vows
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... edges.html

Secondary Tantric Vows
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... edges.html

Factors Involved in Transgressing Tantric Vows
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... _vows.html

Introduction to the Pledged Bodhicitta Actions for Training and the Root Bodhisattva Vows
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... ipt_6.html

Root Bodhisattva Vows
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... edges.html

Secondary Bodhisattva Vows
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... edges.html
Alfredo
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Alfredo »

Montana wrote:
[...] there are some ego maniacs giving modified vows for the purpose of manipulating the unlucky people that mistook them for a vow holder and took vows.
Could you give an example? I honestly don't know who/what you could be referring to.

Konchog1 wrote:
Samaya or pledges are things that you promise the deity to do during empowerment. Samvara or vows are things that you promise not to do. One of the common samaya is to keep your Samvara.
But if you haven't taken a samvara not to break your samaya, then have you really promised anything?

:smile:
(no longer participating on this board)
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Konchog1
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it

Post by Konchog1 »

heart wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:Samaya or pledges are things that you promise the deity to do during empowerment. Samvara or vows are things that you promise not to do. One of the common samaya is to keep your Samvara.
You promise the guru, not the deity.

/magnus
That doesn't match with my recollection...
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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