Good stretches for postration.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:01 am

dzogchungpa wrote:Is it actually acceptable to do them that way?
heart wrote:No, of course not. Different traditions.
Malcolm wrote:Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.
I see.
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supermaxv
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by supermaxv » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:19 am

Well, in my Ngondro materials from my refuge lama, there are specific guidelines and teachings in regards to the proper forms of prostrations for Ngondro accumulation.

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Malcolm
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:30 am

supermaxv wrote:Well, in my Ngondro materials from my refuge lama, there are specific guidelines and teachings in regards to the proper forms of prostrations for Ngondro accumulation.
These things are customs, not Dharma.
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heart
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by heart » Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:32 am

Malcolm wrote:
supermaxv wrote:Well, in my Ngondro materials from my refuge lama, there are specific guidelines and teachings in regards to the proper forms of prostrations for Ngondro accumulation.
These things are customs, not Dharma.
Lately I notice you seem to have a custom to question other customs in the Dharma, is that accurate? :smile:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by byamspa » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:05 am

:popcorn:
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:26 am

Malcolm wrote:
heart wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote: Is it actually acceptable to do them that way?
No, of course not. Different traditions.

/magnus
Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.
Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.

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smcj
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:30 am

Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.
Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.
For instance since I'm an old geezer I asked permission to use a raised prostration board, which makes them much easier. I got permission, but my teacher probably wouldn't have given a younger person that same permission.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Malcolm
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:33 am

tomamundsen wrote: Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.
No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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smcj
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:39 am

Malcolm wrote: No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.
Since this is actual practice we are talking about, where do you draw the line? Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Malcolm
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:51 am

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote: No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.
Since this is actual practice we are talking about, where do you draw the line? Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?
There are no rules, my friend., apart from those we choose to follow.
Atikosha
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Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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smcj
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:40 am

Malcolm wrote:
There are no rules, my friend., apart from those we choose to follow.
In my work I sometimes have to go to 3 or 4 different places a week, places I've never been to before. They give me directions and a map on how to get there. Nobody forces me to follow their directions, but if I choose not to follow them I can't blame the guy that made the map if I get lost or if I am late. If I take a shortcut I do so at my own peril.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Malcolm
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:48 am

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
There are no rules, my friend., apart from those we choose to follow.
In my work I sometimes have to go to 3 or 4 different places a week, places I've never been to. They give me directions and a map on how to get there. Nobody forces me to follow their directions, but if I choose not to follow them I can't blame the guy that made the map if I get lost or if I am late. If I take a shortcut I do so at my own peril.
Maps do not specify if you are to arrive by walking, train, car, bike, bus, helicopter or motorbike.

Incidentally, prostrations as a "practice" are Tibetan innovation. This is not a bad thing, but it does need to be recognized as such.
Atikosha
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Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:32 am

Malcolm wrote:
tomamundsen wrote: Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.
No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.
That's true. But I don't quite see the point of practicing Vajrayana if you aren't following a guru that you trust enough to defer practice instructions.

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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by muni » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:21 am

smcj wrote:
Yes, of course it is acceptable. A prostration is a prostration.
Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.
For instance since I'm an old geezer I asked permission to use a raised prostration board, which makes them much easier. I got permission, but my teacher probably wouldn't have given a younger person that same permission.

The master sees what is the best for the student. All who have health problems or damages at the body, inform about.
While difficulties can be part of the exercise and need no cusshion or board if the body is healthy enough.
I make the mistake to want to protect the young bodies, because of the experiences that young is not the same as strong.
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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heart
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by heart » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:17 pm

tomamundsen wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
tomamundsen wrote: Things like this are decided by the practitioner's guru.
No, things like this are decided by oneself. If one chooses to follow someone else's idea, still it is one's own choice. Nothing trumps personal authority.
That's true. But I don't quite see the point of practicing Vajrayana if you aren't following a guru that you trust enough to defer practice instructions.
That is a good question. However old practitioners is often given more leeway, at least I am, when it comes to what practice to do and perhaps Malcolm is talking from that perspective.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

muni
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by muni » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:50 pm

The Guru is only helping. It is ones own practice, own liberation. 84000 ways to cure. In that way we cannot judge others medicine.

The gratitude and deep respect for the sacred given medicine, is also expressed by prostration.
Awaken ones their sometimes very old bodies bow down till last breath fades.


All the best with ngondro. :namaste:
Buddha said all is empty like my brain.
Let’s make a selfie!

Having meditated on love and compassion, I forgot the difference between myself and others. Yogi Milarepa.

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smcj
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by smcj » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:39 pm

Incidentally, prostrations as a "practice" are Tibetan innovation. This is not a bad thing, but it does need to be recognized as such.
Nylon strings on a classical guitar are an American invention. Nobody wants to go back to cat-gut strings. Sometimes innovation is improvement. But if you tried to put metal strings on a classical guitar you'd collapse the instrument. You've got to know what you're doing. Best to trust the experts.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Robert Hunter

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Malcolm
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:24 pm

smcj wrote:
Incidentally, prostrations as a "practice" are Tibetan innovation. This is not a bad thing, but it does need to be recognized as such.
Nylon strings on a classical guitar are an American invention. Nobody wants to go back to cat-gut strings. Sometimes innovation is improvement. But if you tried to put metal strings on a classical guitar you'd collapse the instrument. You've got to know what you're doing. Best to trust the experts.
My basic point of course, is that I have seen numerous people injure themselves severely with prostrations (knees, backs, necks, wrists). As a Doctor, my motivation is to prevent further injuries so people can practice well and long. The Nalanda style of prostrations (so called half prostrations) is better than that Vikramashila style (so called full prostrations). It is easier on the back, knees and neck.

Sun salutations is better than either in my opinion, because it works all the major joints and channels with little risk of injury done slowly and with care.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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florin
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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by florin » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:54 pm

smcj wrote: Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?


You can make up your own mantra.
One of these made up mantras is OM TELEPHONE SVAHA.
Yeah...do that... :rolling:
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Re: Good stretches for postration.

Post by byamspa » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:14 pm

alpha wrote:
smcj wrote: Can you make up your own mantra? Create a new deity or sadhana?


You can make up your own mantra.
One of these made up mantras is OM TELEPHONE SVAHA.
Yeah...do that... :rolling:
The current state of samsara seems to be toward 'OM MONEY PAY ME NOW' :(
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?

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