dharmagoat wrote:I think it is fair to say that there are some tantric practitioners (and aspiring practitioners) that cherish the manifestation of the inward signs of spiritual attainment to the degree that they resent those who stumble upon these effects without following the accepted procedures, and might therefore consider them undeserving of what is seen as a reward.
That's a joke, right?
No joke. I am referring to those that have not yet attained the inward signs but crave them.
dharmagoat wrote:It is very likely that these effects have the same psycho-physiological basis in either case, but that they only indicate spiritual progress under certain conditions.
As far as I have heard the appearences in Dzogchen meditation are caused by the purification of the five elements and the culination of that process is that when you die your mortal body will dissolve (rainbow body).
It might just be that the nervous system becomes slightly destabilised and does a few odd things, and the rainbow body might just be metaphorical. This is in no way diminishes the profundity of the realisation that results.
theanarchist wrote:I seriously doubt that "seeing a few light phenomenon" while smoking pot and fiddling around with ones mind with concentration exercises will do that trick.
I agree that it is very unlikely that any significant realisation comes from this, but the special effects could be caused by a similarly destabilised nervous system.
theanarchist wrote:This applies to you: Meaning, you are not practicing Dzogchen and you don't have any Dzogchen related experiences
But maybe, just maybe, the experience of Dzogchen is universal and can arise spontaneously in some people. And anyway, who is to say what a person was doing in a previous life?
That is enough conjecture from me for now. I offer it only as food for thought.