Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow body[?]

mutsuk
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by mutsuk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:41 pm

Guty wrote: DOES REAL ORGANIC CELLULAR MATERIAL IN FACT SUBLIMATE.
According to traditional literature on the subject, this would concern only two of the five colorful modalities arising at that time.

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justsit
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by justsit » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:51 pm

dharmagoat wrote:
justsit wrote:Just curious - did you ever discuss this with your teacher?
Unfortunately it is common here for this question to be code for 'If you have no teacher, then you have no business discussing this'.

It is also a valid enquiry, and I trust that Justsit is genuinely asking.
Nope, no code here, genuinely asking.

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:10 pm

heart wrote:
Guty wrote: I am eliminating unnecessary ornaments, that's who and how I am at the moment.
Typical American Buddhism, isn't it?

/magnus
"Unnecessary" and "minimalist" are attitudes.
I just read a passage on this that really resonated because I myself have a "patiently suffering" attitude. And it's exhausting.
How much energy in practice actually gets redirected into maintaining our particular angle?

I can type out the passage for you if you're interested.
Namo Amitābhāya
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Guty » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:24 pm

"Unnecessary" and "minimalist" are attitudes.
I just read a passage on this that really resonated because I myself have a "patiently suffering" attitude. And it's exhausting.
How much energy in practice actually gets redirected into maintaining our particular angle?

I can type out the passage for you if you're interested.
Sure, why not, could be interesting.
- La Esperanza es para la gente que vive sin Gracia -
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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:28 pm

Actually found it already typed out in another DW thread. Handy :P It's specifically about meditation but I find it applies to practice in general, too.
A Beginner's Guide to Tibetan Buddhism by Bruce Newman wrote:We all have a certain style for doing things--how we drive, how we cook, how we dress. Some of us are shy or cautious, others assertive or flamboyant. We've refined that style over the years based on how successful it is, but it's not usually something of which we're completely aware. As long as it gets the job done, as long as we get the appropriate feedback from others, our style goes unnoticed, and when questioned we'll say, "That's just the way I am."

When we begin meditation, it is inevitable that we will meditate with the same style with which we do everything else, because it's who we think we are. Furthermore, this style has proven to be reasonably successful in our other activities. However, in this case, it is not at all appropriate. If there is any style, there is a hidden agenda and an implicit judgment of the various phenomena of meditation. There is not the true detachment or choiceless awareness of real meditation. Our style contains our unacknowledged attitudes toward meditation.

...What's the problem in meditating with an attitude? First, a large amount of energy goes into maintaining the attitude. To make this clearer, if we are trying to be aware of our breathing, 100 percent of our attention should be on our breathing. If we're thinking, "I'm a shy person and I'm a little afraid of what's going on here," even if we're not consciously aware of that thought, it will be taking our energy away from the breathing and keeping it tied up in the world of ego. Consequently, this energy is not available for our practice. And your evaluation of your practice and progress will be based on your agenda rather than on the Buddha's teaching.

Of course, no one is a perfect meditator. It's not like we have to wait until we have a perfect attitude before we begin. If that were the case, we would never start..With time, the purity of your attitude will grow...refining one's approach is a lifetime's work and is at the same time the practice itself.(p.72)
It's good to discern what approach you most need at the moment, because you know your suffering best.
However, there's a temptation, at least for me, to feel something is right merely because I'm familiar with it and it's comfortable.
Rejecting ideas or seeking intellectual satisfaction can be another way to avoid things.
There's a security in figuring out, a control in knowing what's right or useful and what can be discarded.
We need to use a lot of caution and be savvy to how we try to make things better for ourselves when engaging in any kind of inquiry.

That's also why I think a poster asked if Guty had a teacher.
It's not to be snarky, but because what would knowing X or Y do for your suffering?
There's usually a lot of work to be done before we need to worry about the nature of advanced theoretical attainments.
Curiosity is wonderful, but time can be wasted if we're not careful.
Namo Amitābhāya
OM MA NI PE ME HUNG

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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:07 am

:good:

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:21 am

I don't think you can establish, scientifically, a direct link between a rainbow occurring in the sky and a person dying. Both are actually very common events. In fact, it would be rare for a rainbow to occur in a populated area, such as a large city, where someone hasn't just died, or where many people have not died within the last few hours. If a lot of the people were Buddhists, you even might have a fight over whose rainbow it is! Also, there are areas of the world, certain valleys or mountains where air moisture is trapped easily and rainbows are quite common, and where it might even be rare to die on a day when there were not rainbows.

At a dharma center I used to go to, a lama would visit every autumn and give teachings, and people used to say how auspicious it was that it always rained during the teachings, like a 'rain of wisdom' or 'rain of dharma'. But in fact, where I live, it always rains a lot in the autumn. It would have been auspicious if the rain had stopped!

Still, if one really understands how awareness arises with the physical body to begin with, and manifests the particular way it does with that little ball of salt water and fat and amino acids that we call the brain, it would not be too hard to imagine how the Buddhist 'rainbow body' phenomena could be explained in a similar way. And if a learned master has assembled some high degree of discipline over the workings of awareness, a working theory on the ability to do this on purpose might be possible.

Oh look...here is a guy eating popcorn!
:popcorn:
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Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Guty » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:28 am

It's good to discern what approach you most need at the moment, because you know your suffering best.
I need no approach and I do not expect anything, there is no suffering, these things completely fell off two years ago. There are no more processes but gazing and abidance.
However, there's a temptation, at least for me, to feel something is right merely because I'm familiar with it and it's comfortable.

Rejecting ideas or seeking intellectual satisfaction can be another way to avoid things.
My seeking ended 18 years ago. I am finalizing the path shortly. I see you misunderstood what I was saying before.
There's a security in figuring out, a control in knowing what's right or useful and what can be discarded.
there is nothing to be discarded, this never comes to mind. I live in contemplative state that was maturing last 18 years. It is not even possible to think in terms of being distracted or being focused.
We need to use a lot of caution and be savvy to how we try to make things better for ourselves when engaging in any kind of inquiry.
No inquiries of any kind. Do not confuse internal inquiries with conceptual inquiries.. that may and will arise, but they have no power to affect the internal condition. External questions are not an issue. There is outer mind and internal mind. The outer one never interferes.
That's also why I think a poster asked if Guty had a teacher.
OK then, briefly: I had 5 of them of which 3 had a real power to initiate, one is a friend of mine and other one is my wife. Two of them had realizations of similar kind as Jigdral Jeshe Dorje. I was doing informal anuyoga and guruyoga practice from the begining after his death, that allowed me to understand the primordial state. Later this type of devotion fell of all by itself.
Last edited by Guty on Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:32 am

And we are very good at forgetting all the times when there is an occasion and a rainbow does not appear.

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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:36 am

Guty wrote:I need no approach and I do not expect anything, there is no suffering, these things completely fell off two years ago. There are no more processes but gazing and abidance.
Where's Greg?

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Monlam Tharchin
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Monlam Tharchin » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:38 am

Your seeking has ended but you need empirical proof of a spiritual attainment before you can "take it seriously"?
I don't understand.

I rejoice in the realization of any being. It's not for me to judge.
But a problem with mere words on an internet forum is they can create an impression other than what we intend.

Best of luck to you.
Namo Amitābhāya
OM MA NI PE ME HUNG

Guty
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Guty » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:47 am

Yes, it may look as paradoxical; there are many paradoxical things that we are somehow forced to unify in our lives in order to get somewhere with it. However, I will say for the 20th time that my original question is of a different nature. It only exist as long as I think about it...
- La Esperanza es para la gente que vive sin Gracia -
- Hope is for people, who do not yet live in Grace -

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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:01 am

Isn't it only newbies that need to ask others if the Dharma is reliable?

krodha
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by krodha » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:12 am

Guty are you dmr82 on vajracakra?

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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Guty » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:14 am

Have I ever asked if DHARMA was reliable??? Please.... You may want to read my initial posts again.
- La Esperanza es para la gente que vive sin Gracia -
- Hope is for people, who do not yet live in Grace -

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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:15 am

Guty wrote:Have I ever asked if DHARMA was reliable??? Please.... You may want to read my initial posts again.
I am sure you did.

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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Guty » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:19 am

Please show me, where I claimed such thing.
- La Esperanza es para la gente que vive sin Gracia -
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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:20 am

So you are not a newbie?

You have the air of someone new to the Dharma.

Guty
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by Guty » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:39 am

dharmagoat wrote:
Guty wrote:Have I ever asked if DHARMA was reliable??? Please.... You may want to read my initial posts again.
I am sure you did.
Then you may have a memory problem, or you are a LIAR.
- La Esperanza es para la gente que vive sin Gracia -
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dharmagoat
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Re: Scientifically satisfactory evidence for the rainbow bod

Post by dharmagoat » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:53 am

I believe you are the one telling lies. Little white ones, but lies nonetheless.

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