Omniscience and the future

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
Post Reply
AlexanderS
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Omniscience and the future

Post by AlexanderS »

Since buddhists don't believe that whatever happens is determined or "fate, how can Buddhas know the future?
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17070
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

AlexanderS wrote:Since buddhists don't believe that whatever happens is determined or "fate, how can Buddhas know the future?

I believe the standard answer is something like they are "seeing" cause and effect on a larger scale, well beyond what deluded beings see.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
AlexanderS
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by AlexanderS »

I just feel that if they can see what kind of karma I create then they already know which choices and actions I will make in this and future lives. For me that is pretty close to determinism.
User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 5408
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by LastLegend »

AlexanderS wrote:Since buddhists don't believe that whatever happens is determined or "fate, how can Buddhas know the future?
You will have to ask a Buddha if there is a future at all. :lol:
It’s eye blinking.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17070
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

AlexanderS wrote:I just feel that if they can see what kind of karma I create then they already know which choices and actions I will make in this and future lives. For me that is pretty close to determinism.

There ARE some logical hiccups in it on the surface, especially when people say "everything is Karma", because if everything is Karma, it is basically determinism, including your practice of Dharma, it's pre-ordained. There has to be some moment of choice at some point.

There's a good Berzin article on it though, that goes a good way to answering some of these questions:

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... birth.html

I believe it's this article somehwere, he really goes into the exact question you are asking, basically about free will vs. determinism in a karmic context.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8881
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by Astus »

Do buddhas know the future? Then lot of classical incidents of Shakyamuni would not have happened. Some discussed here: The Buddha and Omniscience
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
theanarchist
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by theanarchist »

AlexanderS wrote:Since buddhists don't believe that whatever happens is determined or "fate, how can Buddhas know the future?
I don't think that an enlightened being can know EVERYTHING that is going to happen in the future, but as someone else mentioned, it's a matter of perceiving the depths of cause and effect. So some future events are set due to the causes that make an outcome inevitable, but a lot more are not and those are of course beyond even a buddha's clairvoiance.
AlexanderS
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:58 am

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by AlexanderS »

Perhaps this question belongs to the 4 imponderables?
User avatar
Nosta
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:28 pm

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by Nosta »

Maybe a Buddha could know all the possibles results of all actions, but not know wich actions people would choose.

Wich sutras could give an answer to the op question?
User avatar
Sherab
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:28 am

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by Sherab »

Nosta wrote:Maybe a Buddha could know all the possibles results of all actions, but not know wich actions people would choose.
Wich sutras could give an answer to the op question?
From the suttas and sutras that I have read, I have not come across any that could give an answer.

However, I remember reading Guru Rinpoche's predictions for his tertons taking the form of ... if terton X choose A then the outcome would be Y, else if he chooses B then the outcome would be Z. So Guru Rinpoche seemed to recognize that the outcome of his prediction is dependent on the choices that his tertons will make.

Modern science has shown that the physical world is not entirely deterministic. I think the same applies to the mental world as well.
dimeo
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:31 pm

Re: Omniscience and the future

Post by dimeo »

I'm just guessing here... but perhaps it has to do with the idea of "one taste".

That if you could know all... perhaps at the root of it all you'd simply see the arising and cessation of all phenomena and the suffering of sentient beings.

Sometimes we think of possessing omniscience as being an awesome super power... but for a being of infinite compassion then I imagine omniscience would reveal the infinitely vast experience of suffering in all sentient life.

And that whole idea feels rather sad - breaks my heart just thinking about it really.
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”