extibetanbuddhist dot com

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm »

smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
User avatar
reddust
Posts: 761
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:29 am
Location: Oregon

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by reddust »

From my experience if you have some training in the basic principles of sutta study it's easy to see Mahayana and Vajrayana have all the data that Gotama Buddha brought back to this world. If one isn't grounded no matter where you go in the Buddhist world you can get lost in the side shows. The Dharma/Dhamma became what it is today per the culture's conditions it settled in... It's hard to get taken by a shyster if you have the basic teachings down pat.
Mind and mental events are concepts, mere postulations within the three realms of samsara Longchenpa .... A link to my Garden, Art and Foodie blog Scratch Living
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
My understanding was that they were approving of his spiritual development, compassion, humility, devotion etc. When Chatrul R. gave him his Refuge name I remember it translating as something like, "dharma person that has no lineage", lol.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by dzogchungpa »

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
My understanding was that they were approving of his spiritual development, compassion, humility, devotion etc. When Chatrul R. gave him his Refuge name I remember it translating as something like, "dharma person that has no lineage", lol.
I don't know about a refuge name, but I believe Chatral Rinpoche called him a 'rangjung sangyay', perhaps not entirely seriously, but nevertheless approvingly.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm »

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
smcj wrote: HHDL was very fond and approving of Thomas Merton. So was Chatrul R. I doubt their assessment was dependent on Merton's passing a Madhyamaka quiz.
Approving what sense? You think they approved of his Catholic views? What they approved of was his interest in Buddhism.
My understanding was that they were approving of his spiritual development, compassion, humility, devotion etc. When Chatrul R. gave him his Refuge name I remember it translating as something like, "dharma person that has no lineage", lol.
Merton was interested in Dzogchen, since he had heard about it from Bede Griffiths. He asked HHDL, HHDL sent him to Chatral.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

dzogchungpa wrote: I don't know about a refuge name, but I believe Chatral Rinpoche called him a 'rangjung sangyay', perhaps not entirely seriously, but nevertheless approvingly.
Ah yes, Self-Arising Buddha. I took the self-arising part to mean no lineage--my own interpretation.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Malcolm wrote: Merton was interested in Dzogchen, since he had heard about it from Bede Griffiths. He asked HHDL, HHDL sent him to Chatral.
A quote from Simon E., quoting HHDL, from a different thread:
...so how do you explain Thomas Merton a Chtristian monk who was described by HHDL as having at that time a deeper knowledge of Dharma than any westerner he had met ?
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm »

smcj wrote:
Malcolm wrote: Merton was interested in Dzogchen, since he had heard about it from Bede Griffiths. He asked HHDL, HHDL sent him to Chatral.
A quote from Simon E., quoting HHDL, from a different thread:
...so how do you explain Thomas Merton a Chtristian monk who was described by HHDL as having at that time a deeper knowledge of Dharma than any westerner he had met ?

There were not many westerners who had any understanding of Dharma in 1968, least of all who would have met HHDL at that time.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

There were not many westerners who had any understanding of Dharma in 1968, least of all who would have met HHDL at that time.
Hmmm.
In his autobiography, Freedom in Exile, the Dalai Lama described Merton's visit as one of his "happiest memories of this time" and said that it was Thomas Merton who "introduced [him] to the real meaning of the word 'Christian'." (2) Later, in an interview, when asked the three most influential people in his life His Holiness replied his Dharma teacher, Chairman Mao Tse-tung and Thomas Merton. (3)

Again and again over the years in his public teachings the Dalia Lama has held up Thomas Merton as a model for interfaith dialog and world peace.

At the Abbey of Gethsemani in 1996 the Dalai Lama said:

I always consider myself as one of [Thomas Merton's] Buddhist brothers. So … I always remember him, and I always admire his activities and his life-style. Since my meeting with him … I really follow some of his examples … So for the rest of my life, the impact of meeting him will remain until my last breath. I really want to state that I make this commitment, and this will remain until my last breath. (4)
By 1996 he had met a whole lot of people. HHDL hasn't said anything like that about anybody since, to the best of my knowledge.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Malcolm »

smcj wrote: By 1996 he had met a whole lot of people. HHDL hasn't said anything like that about anybody since, to the best of my knowledge.
But he is not extolling Merton here for his understanding of Buddhism, rather, for his example as a human being. Two entirely different issues.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

But he is not extolling Merton here for his understanding of Buddhism, rather, for his example as a human being. Two entirely different issues.
Lol! That's my point!
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Adi
Posts: 328
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:45 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Adi »

Malcolm wrote:But he is not extolling Merton here for his understanding of Buddhism, rather, for his example as a human being. Two entirely different issues.
Yes. If one reads what HH Dalai Lama has said about Merton and reads Merton's Asian Journals and adds Chatral Rinpoche calling him a self-arising Buddha, I think it is clear from a very general Buddhist sense what it's all about. No one is saying that by being a Cistercian monk Merton achieved Buddhist realization, but by karma of previous lives Merton found himself in this life as he did and meeting all these amazing Tibetan lamas. His causes and conditions caused something to ripen and he had many an apparently auspicious encounter with them.

Currenty, interfaith dialogue is also of great concern to HH Dalai Lama and indeed he continues to say that Merton is "a model for interfaith dialog and world peace." He does not say that he was a realized practitioner of some kind. Whatever the views, though, I sincerely wish there were more of these kinds of scenes going on in our increasingly crowded world, both in life and in honor of such exemplary lives lived.

Adi
HHDL at Merton Grave.jpg
HHDL at Merton Grave.jpg (73.57 KiB) Viewed 4058 times
honestdboy
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by honestdboy »

That's interesting reading, but it only mentions the bad side of TB. I prefer Bill Schwartz's Tinfoil page, which is critical but sometimes has something good to say about TB: https://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/
Derek
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Derek »

kajibabu wrote: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:38 am I did not find even the depth of study like another antagonist writing webpage
If you want a deeper study, her critique has now been turned into a full-length book with the title Enthralled: The Guru Cult of Tibetan Buddhism.
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by jkarlins »

no
User avatar
Virgo
Posts: 4844
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Uni-verse

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Virgo »

Off topic posts removed. Please remain on topic. Thank you.

Kevin
User avatar
PuerAzaelis
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by PuerAzaelis »

[never mind]
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
emaho
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by emaho »

honestdboy wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am That's interesting reading, but it only mentions the bad side of TB. I prefer Bill Schwartz's Tinfoil page, which is critical but sometimes has something good to say about TB: https://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/
Really? What do you like about this site? I just took a look at some articles at that site and it looks to me like he doesn't even try to be objective. Honestly I don't like how he writes. In this article for instance he mentions a Lama Norlha whom he calls "the Harvey Weinstein of Tibetan Buddhism" and he also says "And let us not forget how the Panama Papers caught “His Holiness” laundering money for the Chinese." Unfortunately for those like me who haven't heard of either scandal he neither provides any background information on either topic, nor does he link to external sources that would provide further information. Not very professional in my opinion, even if he's possibly right. Even in an opinion piece you should provide the reader the essential pieces of information. For me this site is a waste of time. :shrug:
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
Varis
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:09 am

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by Varis »

tobes wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:37 am It's pretty interesting politically. Classic paranoid libertarianism, USA style - every collective is a totalitarian plot/conspiracy to rule the world!

But then, to quote Kurt Cobain: “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you." i.e. Of course there are some granules of truth in her critique.

:anjali:
I have to be completely honest that her post reeked of nothing more than this.
I'm sure she's had terrible experiences, but she appears to have gone off her rocker and transformed that into a mega-conspiracy of Tibetan Lamas trying to conquer the West. The sad part is that she'll probably gain an audience who will genuinely believe that Tibetan Lamas are behind everything bad in the world.
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6290
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: extibetanbuddhist dot com

Post by heart »

emaho wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:47 pm
honestdboy wrote: Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am That's interesting reading, but it only mentions the bad side of TB. I prefer Bill Schwartz's Tinfoil page, which is critical but sometimes has something good to say about TB: https://tinfoilushnisha.wordpress.com/
Really? What do you like about this site? I just took a look at some articles at that site and it looks to me like he doesn't even try to be objective. Honestly I don't like how he writes. In this article for instance he mentions a Lama Norlha whom he calls "the Harvey Weinstein of Tibetan Buddhism" and he also says "And let us not forget how the Panama Papers caught “His Holiness” laundering money for the Chinese." Unfortunately for those like me who haven't heard of either scandal he neither provides any background information on either topic, nor does he link to external sources that would provide further information. Not very professional in my opinion, even if he's possibly right. Even in an opinion piece you should provide the reader the essential pieces of information. For me this site is a waste of time. :shrug:
It seems the situation in the offshore leaks he is speculating about is this: https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/nodes/153909

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”