Dzogchen & rainbow body
Dzogchen & rainbow body
Hello dear friends,
I am relatively new to the subject of Dzogchen and I must admit that I didn't find many sources which describe clearly (at least to me) what exactly Dzogchen means and how you are supposed train to achieve the rainbow body.
Therefore I would like to discuss these subjects with you who have a better understanding of these subjects than me.
As far as my limited understanding goes, it seems to me that Dzogchen describes the primal state of mind which is re-achieved by reversing the outward stream of awareness back to its source.
"The mirror tries to reflect itself", like a short-circuit.
The perceiver tries to perceive itself, so all senses and energies of your inner being re-join with their source.
If this state is achieved and kept for a longer time (and is possibly more and more intensified),
then the mind develops a unique strength and ability to "burn through illusion" and get insight into the nature of all things it gets aware of.
If this primal strength and force of the mind is focused on the own physical body, then the mind dissolves the matter of the body back into its elements, which leads to the achievement of rainbow body.
So the "primal" mind does not only have the passive ability for insight,
but also has the active force to "dissolve" things or to transform them.
I would be happy if you would please correct my interpretations, if these are wrong and further my understanding.
Btw, what happens if you focus this "Dzogchen" mind at your subtle body?
Is in Dzogchen training trained at all with the channels, chakras, drops, winds etc. as in the Six Yogas Of Naropa?
Is Dzogchen not more or less similar to Zen?
ZOOM
I am relatively new to the subject of Dzogchen and I must admit that I didn't find many sources which describe clearly (at least to me) what exactly Dzogchen means and how you are supposed train to achieve the rainbow body.
Therefore I would like to discuss these subjects with you who have a better understanding of these subjects than me.
As far as my limited understanding goes, it seems to me that Dzogchen describes the primal state of mind which is re-achieved by reversing the outward stream of awareness back to its source.
"The mirror tries to reflect itself", like a short-circuit.
The perceiver tries to perceive itself, so all senses and energies of your inner being re-join with their source.
If this state is achieved and kept for a longer time (and is possibly more and more intensified),
then the mind develops a unique strength and ability to "burn through illusion" and get insight into the nature of all things it gets aware of.
If this primal strength and force of the mind is focused on the own physical body, then the mind dissolves the matter of the body back into its elements, which leads to the achievement of rainbow body.
So the "primal" mind does not only have the passive ability for insight,
but also has the active force to "dissolve" things or to transform them.
I would be happy if you would please correct my interpretations, if these are wrong and further my understanding.
Btw, what happens if you focus this "Dzogchen" mind at your subtle body?
Is in Dzogchen training trained at all with the channels, chakras, drops, winds etc. as in the Six Yogas Of Naropa?
Is Dzogchen not more or less similar to Zen?
ZOOM
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Another thing I'd like to know:
All the monks you read about who achieved rainbow body, did they all achieve it with Dzogchen or do other ways like Tantra or the Six Yogas Of Naropa also lead to that attainment?
ZOOM
All the monks you read about who achieved rainbow body, did they all achieve it with Dzogchen or do other ways like Tantra or the Six Yogas Of Naropa also lead to that attainment?
ZOOM
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Unfortunately you can't figure out dzogchen on your own.ZOOM wrote:Hello dear friends,
I am relatively new to the subject of Dzogchen and I must admit that I didn't find many sources which describe clearly (at least to me) what exactly Dzogchen means and how you are supposed train to achieve the rainbow body.
Therefore I would like to discuss these subjects with you who have a better understanding of these subjects than me.
As far as my limited understanding goes, it seems to me that Dzogchen describes the primal state of mind which is re-achieved by reversing the outward stream of awareness back to its source.
"The mirror tries to reflect itself", like a short-circuit.
The perceiver tries to perceive itself, so all senses and energies of your inner being re-join with their source.
If this state is achieved and kept for a longer time (and is possibly more and more intensified),
then the mind develops a unique strength and ability to "burn through illusion" and get insight into the nature of all things it gets aware of.
If this primal strength and force of the mind is focused on the own physical body, then the mind dissolves the matter of the body back into its elements, which leads to the achievement of rainbow body.
So the "primal" mind does not only have the passive ability for insight,
but also has the active force to "dissolve" things or to transform them.
I would be happy if you would please correct my interpretations, if these are wrong and further my understanding.
Btw, what happens if you focus this "Dzogchen" mind at your subtle body?
Is in Dzogchen training trained at all with the channels, chakras, drops, winds etc. as in the Six Yogas Of Naropa?
Is Dzogchen not more or less similar to Zen?
ZOOM
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Well, this comment doesn't answer any of my questions.alpha wrote:Unfortunately you can't figure out dzogchen on your own.ZOOM wrote:Hello dear friends,
I am relatively new to the subject of Dzogchen and I must admit that I didn't find many sources which describe clearly (at least to me) what exactly Dzogchen means and how you are supposed train to achieve the rainbow body.
Therefore I would like to discuss these subjects with you who have a better understanding of these subjects than me.
As far as my limited understanding goes, it seems to me that Dzogchen describes the primal state of mind which is re-achieved by reversing the outward stream of awareness back to its source.
"The mirror tries to reflect itself", like a short-circuit.
The perceiver tries to perceive itself, so all senses and energies of your inner being re-join with their source.
If this state is achieved and kept for a longer time (and is possibly more and more intensified),
then the mind develops a unique strength and ability to "burn through illusion" and get insight into the nature of all things it gets aware of.
If this primal strength and force of the mind is focused on the own physical body, then the mind dissolves the matter of the body back into its elements, which leads to the achievement of rainbow body.
So the "primal" mind does not only have the passive ability for insight,
but also has the active force to "dissolve" things or to transform them.
I would be happy if you would please correct my interpretations, if these are wrong and further my understanding.
Btw, what happens if you focus this "Dzogchen" mind at your subtle body?
Is in Dzogchen training trained at all with the channels, chakras, drops, winds etc. as in the Six Yogas Of Naropa?
Is Dzogchen not more or less similar to Zen?
ZOOM
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Yup. You got it. Now find a teacher.ZOOM wrote:Another thing I'd like to know:
All the monks you read about who achieved rainbow body, did they all achieve it with Dzogchen or do other ways like Tantra or the Six Yogas Of Naropa also lead to that attainment?
ZOOM
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
My question above, which you believed to answer, could not be answered with a "Yup. You got it."/yes.Crazywisdom wrote:Yup. You got it. Now find a teacher.ZOOM wrote:Another thing I'd like to know:
All the monks you read about who achieved rainbow body, did they all achieve it with Dzogchen or do other ways like Tantra or the Six Yogas Of Naropa also lead to that attainment?
ZOOM
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Both workZOOM wrote:My question above, which you believed to answer, could not be answered with a "Yup. You got it."/yes.Crazywisdom wrote:Yup. You got it. Now find a teacher.ZOOM wrote:Another thing I'd like to know:
All the monks you read about who achieved rainbow body, did they all achieve it with Dzogchen or do other ways like Tantra or the Six Yogas Of Naropa also lead to that attainment?
ZOOM
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Doesn't right speech ever feature in our answers????? Short, snappy and often sharp answers do nothing to help . If the questioner is asking a question and we think he would be better off approaching a teacher why not explain why, and what teachers may be available in his area instead of yup go find a teacher!!!!!
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Hi ZOOM,
You're asking legitimate questions but not getting the kinds of answers you want. What's up with that?
I think it's because the kinds of questions you're asking can't really be addressed easily, if at all, over the interwebz. The short answer to your question, how do I accomplish Dzogchen and attain rainbow body, really is answerable this way: Find a competent teacher and do what he or she says. Really, that's it, but it's also a really tall order.
You're clearly interested in the teachings and the practice, so why not try to find yourself a teacher and get going? Life isn't getting any longer, and who knows what the future holds. Now's a good time to get started on your search. This board is a lot better at helping people find their way to capable teachers and organizations than it is with... well, most other things, actually.
I hope this helps.
I wish you all the best in your path.
You're asking legitimate questions but not getting the kinds of answers you want. What's up with that?
I think it's because the kinds of questions you're asking can't really be addressed easily, if at all, over the interwebz. The short answer to your question, how do I accomplish Dzogchen and attain rainbow body, really is answerable this way: Find a competent teacher and do what he or she says. Really, that's it, but it's also a really tall order.
You're clearly interested in the teachings and the practice, so why not try to find yourself a teacher and get going? Life isn't getting any longer, and who knows what the future holds. Now's a good time to get started on your search. This board is a lot better at helping people find their way to capable teachers and organizations than it is with... well, most other things, actually.
I hope this helps.
I wish you all the best in your path.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Sorry my eyesight is poor. I didn't see the disjunctive interrogatory. I only saw if Six Yogas of Naropa works.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Thanks, you were saying what I was thinking.philji wrote:Doesn't right speech ever feature in our answers????? Short, snappy and often sharp answers do nothing to help . If the questioner is asking a question and we think he would be better off approaching a teacher why not explain why, and what teachers may be available in his area instead of yup go find a teacher!!!!!
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
No problem.Crazywisdom wrote:Sorry my eyesight is poor. I didn't see the disjunctive interrogatory. I only saw if Six Yogas of Naropa works.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
I understand.Jikan wrote:Hi ZOOM,
You're asking legitimate questions but not getting the kinds of answers you want. What's up with that?
I think it's because the kinds of questions you're asking can't really be addressed easily, if at all, over the interwebz. The short answer to your question, how do I accomplish Dzogchen and attain rainbow body, really is answerable this way: Find a competent teacher and do what he or she says. Really, that's it, but it's also a really tall order.
You're clearly interested in the teachings and the practice, so why not try to find yourself a teacher and get going? Life isn't getting any longer, and who knows what the future holds. Now's a good time to get started on your search. This board is a lot better at helping people find their way to capable teachers and organizations than it is with... well, most other things, actually.
I hope this helps.
I wish you all the best in your path.
Thank you very much for the explanation.
I would be very happy if someone could point out to me a competent teacher of Dzogchen in Germany.
Preferably a teacher whose teacher attained rainbow body (which would be proof that the teacher is legitimate).
Last edited by Void on Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Namkhai Norbu is international. Two teacher of his went rainbow.ZOOM wrote:I understand.Jikan wrote:Hi ZOOM,
You're asking legitimate questions but not getting the kinds of answers you want. What's up with that?
I think it's because the kinds of questions you're asking can't really be addressed easily, if at all, over the interwebz. The short answer to your question, how do I accomplish Dzogchen and attain rainbow body, really is answerable this way: Find a competent teacher and do what he or she says. Really, that's it, but it's also a really tall order.
You're clearly interested in the teachings and the practice, so why not try to find yourself a teacher and get going? Life isn't getting any longer, and who knows what the future holds. Now's a good time to get started on your search. This board is a lot better at helping people find their way to capable teachers and organizations than it is with... well, most other things, actually.
I hope this helps.
I wish you all the best in your path.
Thank you very much for the explanation.
I would be very happy if someone could point out to me a legitimate teacher of Dzogchen in Germany.
Preferably a teacher whose teacher realized the rainbow body (which would be proof that the teacher is legitimate).
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
That's interesting, thank you very much!Crazywisdom wrote:Namkhai Norbu is international. Two teacher of his went rainbow.ZOOM wrote:I understand.Jikan wrote:Hi ZOOM,
You're asking legitimate questions but not getting the kinds of answers you want. What's up with that?
I think it's because the kinds of questions you're asking can't really be addressed easily, if at all, over the interwebz. The short answer to your question, how do I accomplish Dzogchen and attain rainbow body, really is answerable this way: Find a competent teacher and do what he or she says. Really, that's it, but it's also a really tall order.
You're clearly interested in the teachings and the practice, so why not try to find yourself a teacher and get going? Life isn't getting any longer, and who knows what the future holds. Now's a good time to get started on your search. This board is a lot better at helping people find their way to capable teachers and organizations than it is with... well, most other things, actually.
I hope this helps.
I wish you all the best in your path.
Thank you very much for the explanation.
I would be very happy if someone could point out to me a legitimate teacher of Dzogchen in Germany.
Preferably a teacher whose teacher realized the rainbow body (which would be proof that the teacher is legitimate).
Could you please tell me the names of these two teachers of him who attained rainbow body?
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Changchub Dorje, Togden Ugyen Tendzin
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
As a terton he is a direct disciple of guru Rinpoche.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Thank you very much for the help!Crazywisdom wrote:As a terton he is a direct disciple of guru Rinpoche.
Namkhai Norbu has international Dzogchen centers, including one in Germany.
That's at least something, even if he is not here for direct teaching.
I will contact them and ask them concerning Dzogchen teaching.
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Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche also gives teachings very frequently via webcast.
http://melong.com/?page_id=329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://melong.com/?page_id=329" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
Re: Dzogchen & rainbow body
http://www.amazon.com/Rainbow-Body-Real ... en+TendzinCrazywisdom wrote:Changchub Dorje, Togden Ugyen Tendzin
Trailer of "My Reincarnation" (a movie about him & his son)Rainbow Body: The Life and Realization of a Tibetan Yogin, Togden Ugyen Tendzin, presents the remarkable life story of Togden Ugyen Tendzin (1888–1962), a Tibetan yogin who in death achieved the “rainbow body,” the release of the physical body in the essence of the five elements and one of the highest spiritual attainments of Dzogchen, recognized as the supreme level of Tibetan Buddhism. His nephew, Chögyal Namkhai Norbu, one of the greatest living masters of Dzogchen, composed the book from his own recollections of his uncle as well as direct quotes from talks with the great yogin himself and his disciple Sala Karma Samten. The book traces the yogin’s childhood struggles, the circumstances that led him to his teacher, the eminent Adzom Drugpa, and his difficult path to self-realization. Finally, Chögyal Namkhai Norbu relates the story of Ugyen Tendzin’s death during imprisonment by the Chinese, when witnesses discovered that though his sheepskin robe still sat upright, his body was gone—a testament to its having dissolved into the rainbow body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfJtcRxw3eo
Do I understand it right that his son is supposed to be the reincarnation of his uncle Togden Ugyen Tendzin, who realized rainbow body?
So how is it supposed to be possible that his son doesn't remember that???