what makes Buddhist deathlessness not eternalism?

[frank123]

I have heard various teachers of Buddhadharma use terms like deathlessness and indestructible etc to talk about our nature.What makes this not eternalism?what is between eternalism and nihilism?

[LastLegend]

If thing is present, we say it exists (eternalism). If thing is not present, we say it does not exist (nihilism). That's how we think. That's how we grasp to concepts.

[Ayu]

Whatever is dependent arising
We declared that to be emptiness.
That is dependent designation,
And itself the middle way.

Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:18

This explains the middle between eternalism and nihilism. It's all neither nor.
"Deathless" is only a negation. It doesn't mean "eternal".

[LastLegend]

Zen Master Bodhidharma:

Mind and form create and negate each other. That which exists exists in relation to that which doesn’t exist. And that which doesn’t exist doesn’t exist in relation to that which exists.

[lorem]

Neither one nor many.

[lorem]

Whatever is dependent arising
We declared that to be emptiness.
That is dependent designation,
And itself the middle way.

Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:18

This explains the middle between eternalism and nihilism. It's all neither nor.
"Deathless" is only a negation. It doesn't mean "eternal".

emptiness?

[LastLegend]

Neither one nor many.

One isn't one because of many, we know one. Many isn't many because of one, we know many. One is not many and many is not one. Many is ones, and ones are many. One is one, many is many.

[LastLegend]

Whatever is dependent arising
We declared that to be emptiness.
That is dependent designation,
And itself the middle way.

Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:18

This explains the middle between eternalism and nihilism. It's all neither nor.
"Deathless" is only a negation. It doesn't mean "eternal".

emptiness?

That is empty isn't empty, that isn't empty is empty.

[lorem]

Neither one nor many.

One isn't one because of many, we know one. Many isn't many because of one, we know many. One is not many and many is not one. Many is ones, and ones are many. One is one, many is many.

Nice. I'm am glad that's clear.

[frank123]

Whatever is dependent arising
We declared that to be emptiness.
That is dependent designation,
And itself the middle way.

Mulamadhyamakakarika 24:18

This explains the middle between eternalism and nihilism. It's all neither nor.
"Deathless" is only a negation. It doesn't mean "eternal".

Is deathless an negation? Sounds like a affirmation.

[frank123]

so is there something that exist in us that is beyond death?

[LastLegend]

I think it points out the way we think is flawed. As soon as there is an assertion/view, we already err. So back to the basic, liberation from suffering as such liberation from view.

[LastLegend]

so is there something that exist in us that is beyond death?

There is not a thing there or even trace of it, yet you are here talking to me.

[odysseus]

The "deathless" means like the Holy Nirvana. Something that´s beyond both life and death, and eternalism and nihilism.

It´s less dramatic than it sounds, but anyone are welcome to come and see...

[frank123]

I think it points out the way we think is flawed. As soon as there is an assertion/view, we already err.

Not what we think but what acually is.

[LastLegend]

Can't reach it by concept. The teaching is liberation from suffering as such liberation from attachment to all views and forms.

[odysseus]

I think it points out the way we think is flawed. As soon as there is an assertion/view, we already err.

Not what we think but what acually is.

Do we absolutely need an assertion or "view", to disguise our errors? Except for Right View? What IS anyway, in your own consciousness? Is it your own definition of "something", or wouldn´t you feel better if there is only something that´s "there", without categorising this something?

[LastLegend]

You are as you are now, don't hold on to any view about yourself or about any forms at death, then you will break through all barriers. Bodhidharma said that, I can give you his quote if you want.The that which holds view is already present in front of you. Don't doubt yourself any more.

Don't hold any attachment to view is call burning the sutra. Jumping off the ocean is called abandoning raft, and you will die , only when this perishes you will see your nature. Don't go kill yourself though. I am just kidding.

[frank123]

I think it points out the way we think is flawed. As soon as there is an assertion/view, we already err.

Not what we think but what acually is.

Do we absolutely need an assertion or "view", to disguise our errors? Except for Right View? What IS anyway, in your own consciousness? Is it your own definition of "something", or wouldn´t you feel better if there is only something that´s "there", without categorising this something?

I stated very clearly beyond concept.

[odysseus]

don't hold on to any view about yourself or about any forms at death, then you will break through all barriers. Bodhidharma said that, I can give you his quote if you want.The that which holds view is already present in front of you. Don't doubt yourself any more.

Yes, it makes us into Supermen. lol

Don't hold any attachment to view is call burning the sutra. Jumping off the ocean is called abandoning raft, and you will die , only when this perishes you will see your nature. Don't go kill yourself though. I am just kidding.

We´ll leave our views and assertions and sutras when we come closer to ourselves. But no need to play hard on ourselves. When the occasion turns into fruition, you know exactly how to handle the river and to cross over safely.