Rainbow Body - Why?

Rakz
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by Rakz » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:32 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tenso wrote: What is the difference between mahayana sambhogakaya and rainbow body?
The Mahāyāna Sambhogakāya is visible only to 8th stage bodhisattvas on up. While lesser rainbow body is only observable through the sign of the shrinking of the body after death, the so called great transformation body, rainbow body attained while still alive, is visible to everyone. Only a small handful of practitioners have achieved this result. Most practitioners of Vajrayāna, regardless of tradition, attain Buddhahood during the bardo.
Ok, thanks.

WeiHan
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by WeiHan » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:38 pm

My Dzogchen notes say something about directing one's awareness at other being and that being will attain similar Buddhahood level as oneself. This I think is one of the unique benefit of attaining rainbow body?

I guess there is no difference in the level of Buddhahood but there are differences in the ways that different Buddhas will benefit sentient beings.

I read Kirtu or somebody else mentioned that Sakya's Narokachoma can attain rainbow body but somebody else has doubt about it. For that, I am very sure what Kirtu said is true- it is mentioned specifically in thee NaroKacho teachings. However, it is not the Jalu rainbow body only attainable through Togyal.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:44 am

Tashi delek Dzogchenpa's,


Nice Rainbow Body.
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg (62.83 KiB) Viewed 1775 times

Now is help to others easier than before......


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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:55 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek Dzogchenpa's,


Nice Rainbow Body.
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg

Now is help to others easier than before......


Mutsug Marro
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Tashi delek Malcolm,


Would you be so kind to translate the Tibetan on the photo ?


Thanks in advance :)


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Malcolm
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:10 pm

  • After the high lama of Khyungpo Yundrung Palri, Chime Rigzin Rinpoche’s mind departed into the the dharmadhātu (bon dbyings), his remains remained just like that for the length of four weeks.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:
  • After the high lama of Khyungpo Yundrung Palri, Chime Rigzin Rinpoche’s mind departed into the the dharmadhātu (bon dbyings), his remains remained just like that for the length of four weeks.
Tashi delek M,

How is live ?
Like always good translations, thanks a lot. :applause:

Have a good time.

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fckw
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by fckw » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tenso wrote: What is the difference between mahayana sambhogakaya and rainbow body?
The Mahāyāna Sambhogakāya is visible only to 8th stage bodhisattvas on up. While lesser rainbow body is only observable through the sign of the shrinking of the body after death, the so called great transformation body, rainbow body attained while still alive, is visible to everyone. Only a small handful of practitioners have achieved this result. Most practitioners of Vajrayāna, regardless of tradition, attain Buddhahood during the bardo.
Just one question for understanding. Is realization of the lesser rainbow body, as Malcolm refers to in the quote, a "binary" event or is it "gradual"? What I mean is: Does someone realize the lesser RB once, and then it's irrevocably realized, or is it rather that such a one has to go through the same steps of realization again and again, until finally the fruition is the lesser RB?

Another issue is that if there is a lesser and a greater RB, this would imply that even after buddhahood (=attainment of lesser RB) there is or may be further deepening and development - at least until greater RB is realized.

Any comments?

Crazywisdom
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:57 pm

Astus wrote:I hear in arguments for the superiority of Dzogchen that it includes the possibility of attaining the rainbow body. Frankly, besides that it sounds cool, I don't see the point of it at all. It might be a great miracle to see someone's body vaporise with colourful lights, but beyond that what? Realisation of the 3/4 bodies are inherent in awareness so it is not the case that buddhahood is at stake. Then why the fuss?
Cool factor aside the interdependence factor dictates that only this deep level of liberation can truly free and help beings.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:45 am

fckw wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Tenso wrote: What is the difference between mahayana sambhogakaya and rainbow body?
The Mahāyāna Sambhogakāya is visible only to 8th stage bodhisattvas on up. While lesser rainbow body is only observable through the sign of the shrinking of the body after death, the so called great transformation body, rainbow body attained while still alive, is visible to everyone. Only a small handful of practitioners have achieved this result. Most practitioners of Vajrayāna, regardless of tradition, attain Buddhahood during the bardo.
Just one question for understanding. Is realization of the lesser rainbow body, as Malcolm refers to in the quote, a "binary" event or is it "gradual"? What I mean is: Does someone realize the lesser RB once, and then it's irrevocably realized, or is it rather that such a one has to go through the same steps of realization again and again, until finally the fruition is the lesser RB?

Another issue is that if there is a lesser and a greater RB, this would imply that even after buddhahood (=attainment of lesser RB) there is or may be further deepening and development - at least until greater RB is realized.

Any comments?
---------------------------------------
Tashi delek Fcwk,

Look at the undermentioned link.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=19465

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:37 pm

Crazywisdom wrote:
Astus wrote:I hear in arguments for the superiority of Dzogchen that it includes the possibility of attaining the rainbow body. Frankly, besides that it sounds cool, I don't see the point of it at all. It might be a great miracle to see someone's body vaporise with colourful lights, but beyond that what? Realisation of the 3/4 bodies are inherent in awareness so it is not the case that buddhahood is at stake. Then why the fuss?
Cool factor aside the interdependence factor dictates that only this deep level of liberation can truly free and help beings.

Tashi delek CW,

The realisation of the bodies the 3 or 5, are there but to become Buddha and Buddha are different. Only the name is the same.
For more look here.
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=19466

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WeiHan
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by WeiHan » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:38 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek Dzogchenpa's,


Nice Rainbow Body.
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg

Now is help to others easier than before......


Mutsug Marro
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The photo is not properly taken to demonstrate with reference that the body has indeed shrunk in size. For example with a background with another human etc..

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:23 pm

WeiHan wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek Dzogchenpa's,


Nice Rainbow Body.
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg

Now is help to others easier than before......


Mutsug Marro
KY
The photo is not properly taken to demonstrate with reference that the body has indeed shrunk in size. For example with a background with another human etc..
---------------

Tashi delek WH,

Thanks for the reply.

But sorry your reply is not so clear to me .
Could you please explain it better to me?

I understood that the body did shrink, but the rest i dont understand well.


Thanks

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Crazywisdom
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:45 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
Astus wrote:I hear in arguments for the superiority of Dzogchen that it includes the possibility of attaining the rainbow body. Frankly, besides that it sounds cool, I don't see the point of it at all. It might be a great miracle to see someone's body vaporise with colourful lights, but beyond that what? Realisation of the 3/4 bodies are inherent in awareness so it is not the case that buddhahood is at stake. Then why the fuss?
Cool factor aside the interdependence factor dictates that only this deep level of liberation can truly free and help beings.

Tashi delek CW,

The realisation of the bodies the 3 or 5, are there but to become Buddha and Buddha are different. Only the name is the same.
For more look here.
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=19466

Mutsug Marro
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i'm not sure what you are asserting here

i'm citing to Khenpo Munsel: If you complete the four visions you will liberate 3000 beings along with you; you cannot do better than that.
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

WeiHan
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by WeiHan » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:58 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
WeiHan wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek Dzogchenpa's,


Nice Rainbow Body.
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg

Now is help to others easier than before......


Mutsug Marro
KY
The photo is not properly taken to demonstrate with reference that the body has indeed shrunk in size. For example with a background with another human etc..
---------------

Tashi delek WH,

Thanks for the reply.

But sorry your reply is not so clear to me .
Could you please explain it better to me?

I understood that the body did shrink, but the rest i dont understand well.


Thanks

Mutsug Marro
KY
The photo alone cannot demonstrate that the body has shrunk in size to a skeptic because there is no reference beside or behind the body in the photo (to function as a reference like a ruler)

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:48 pm

quote="WeiHan"]
kalden yungdrung wrote:
WeiHan wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Tashi delek Dzogchenpa's,


Nice Rainbow Body.
11178438_970636816293534_636654879_n.jpg

Now is help to others easier than before......


Mutsug Marro
KY
The photo is not properly taken to demonstrate with reference that the body has indeed shrunk in size. For example with a background with another human etc..
---------------

Tashi delek WH,

Thanks for the reply.

But sorry your reply is not so clear to me .
Could you please explain it better to me?

I understood that the body did shrink, but the rest i dont understand well.


Thanks

Mutsug Marro
KY
The photo alone cannot demonstrate that the body has shrunk in size to a skeptic because there is no reference beside or behind the body in the photo (to function as a reference like a ruler)[/quote]

---------------------------------------------

Tashi delek WH,

Thanks for the argument.
Ok now i understand it.

Maybe the size of the blue Bonpo hat as reference? :)


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Crazywisdom
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by Crazywisdom » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:55 pm

so he's three hats by three hats by my guesstimate
She glares menacingly at your corpse.

The criticisms of others are like wrathful mantras. Fast purification. Welcome it. -can’t remember who

Rakz
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by Rakz » Fri May 01, 2015 1:40 pm

I understand rainbow body is used to help sentient beings but is that its only sole purpose? Is it not also used to indulge in bliss or is only dharmakaya necessary for that?

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri May 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Tenso wrote:I understand rainbow body is used to help sentient beings but is that its only sole purpose? Is it not also used to indulge in bliss or is only dharmakaya necessary for that?

Tashi delek T,

For me yes it is this mentality (compassion) which comes together with enlightenment, the activity of helping.So compassion all the Buddhas have.
But what they will do regarding helping sentient beings, as a Buddha is mentioned in their vows.
Already during the stages before the realisation of enlightenment , during the development of the Bodhicitta one develops this aspiration to help.
Bliss can arise due to practice or spontaneous. Bliss is a sign of realisation and one does not do practice solely for getting bliss.

If this would be the case that one is only doing practice to get blissfull situations than this would be a blockade to Enlightenment .

I hope you can understand my English, because some think it causes misunderstandings........ :shock:


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godhead
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by godhead » Fri May 01, 2015 3:51 pm

My views about rainbow body....

Any one on the path of Buddhahood, Pratyakabuddha, full arhatship ,may or may not develop rainbow body'.
Buddha normally suppresses it by developing compassion towards sentients. This helps Him to make three kayas. Rainbow body dissolves in Nirmankaya.
Pratkyakabuddha develops rainbow body to dissolve in devotion to Buddha of that era.
Full arahat develops rainbow body and then dissolves it in bliss.

Buddha and Prtkayabuddha can bypass this stage of rainbow body as an unimportant issue.
"All my writing are my personal opinion unless otherwise specifically mentioned."

godhead
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Re: Rainbow Body - Why?

Post by godhead » Fri May 01, 2015 4:07 pm

It is impossible for any living human being to form rainbow body by fully changing physical body . This requires for him to be in total isolation miles away from
any life.
It is possible to form part rainbow body in presence of disciplined devotees or followers. This can be visible and hence is talked about.
But many cases of rainbow body are possible for a saint in bardo (mind away and separated from body}.
"All my writing are my personal opinion unless otherwise specifically mentioned."

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