Akshobhya Pure Land end

Serenity509
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Serenity509 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:08 am

Aemilius wrote: I know of the sutras translated by Rulu. Prophecy to Avalokiteshvara is not among the important sutras of the Amitabha schools in China and Japan.
I've been looking for information about this sutra and I haven't been able to find anything about where or when it originated.

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Aemilius
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Aemilius » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:20 am

Try this one http://www.sutrasmantras.info/translato ... harmodgata
It is about its translator Dharmodgata; the origin of the text is included.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Serenity509
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Serenity509 » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:23 am

Aemilius wrote:Try this one http://www.sutrasmantras.info/translato ... harmodgata
It is about its translator Dharmodgata; the origin of the text is included.
Thank you. Why isn't the Sūtra of the Prophecy Bestowed upon Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva more well known?

Serenity509
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Serenity509 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:42 am

As I'm reading the sutra, maybe I've found a reason why it's not more commonly accepted:
Flower Virtue Store asked the Buddha, “Were there women in that Buddha Land?”
The Buddha replied, “That land did not even have the word ‘woman,’ much less a real one.
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra07.html

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Aemilius
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Aemilius » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:28 am

There are several old discussions about this recurring theme, here is one http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4583
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Serenity509
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Serenity509 » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:59 am

It seems that there's a contradiction in the Lotus Sutra regarding women. There's the famous story of the woman who attained Buddhahood, but elsewhere in the same sutra is says that the woman who is reborn into the Pure Land will be male.

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Aemilius
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Aemilius » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:23 am

The old discussion that I referred to makes it clear that there is no contradiction.
The point is very briefly: In the Pureland beings are born from lotus-flowers. Thus there are no beings with wombs. If there are no womb-beings, there are no beings with penis. I.e. beings with a penis that would serve the function that is well known in the human world.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Serenity509
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Serenity509 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:50 am

Aemilius wrote:The old discussion that I referred to makes it clear that there is no contradiction.
The point is very briefly: In the Pureland beings are born from lotus-flowers. Thus there are no beings with wombs. If there are no womb-beings, there are no beings with penis. I.e. beings with a penis that would serve the function that is well known in the human world.
Are you saying that beings born in the Pure Land are neither male nor female? The 32 marks of a great man, as promised in the larger Amitabha Sutra, include a retractable penis. I think when we try to take these things too literally, the deeper meaning gets lost.

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Aemilius
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Aemilius » Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:12 am

Serenity509 wrote:
Aemilius wrote:The old discussion that I referred to makes it clear that there is no contradiction.
The point is very briefly: In the Pureland beings are born from lotus-flowers. Thus there are no beings with wombs. If there are no womb-beings, there are no beings with penis. I.e. beings with a penis that would serve the function that is well known in the human world.
Are you saying that beings born in the Pure Land are neither male nor female? The 32 marks of a great man, as promised in the larger Amitabha Sutra, include a retractable penis. I think when we try to take these things too literally, the deeper meaning gets lost.
The Sukhavati Vuyha sutra also promises that all who are reborn there are free of desire. How would that manifest?

The deeper meaning is explained in the buddhist view of different planes of existence. This topic is far too vast to be explained here in a couple of words. You would do well to study a little about it.
There are the three realms or three dhatus. There are the realms of kamaloka devas, etc. Beings in them have different properties, they have different levels of sexuality, their bodies are different. There are different modes of becoming in the three realms. This is included in the buddhist view of becoming.
You seem to believe that only the human realm exists in reality ( besides the realm of Nirvana), that other realms are "symbolic" or "mythical". That is not the real truth, and it is not Buddha-Dharma either.
Different planes of existence exist in reality. Even in samsara there are many different levels of existence.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

Tirthan
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Tirthan » Wed May 22, 2019 2:11 pm

Hi, I have not read all of the thread;
but afaik one really does not need to fear of decline of Dharma in Abhirati:
e.g. as I have read, Vajrasattva gives daily Ati-yoga teachings there.
Among others, Milaräpa resides there and also Mipham.

¿Have you not perhaps equivacated (eastern land of Abhirati) with eastern continent Purva-Videha
where people live pure lives, 250 years long, but without o profound dharma?
(https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Purvavideha)

But generally, it is not easy to reborn to Abhirati from our dimension:
first of all, one absolutely needs 1st bhumi at least
(ONLY Sukhávatí is accessible otherwise).
And if one does not have particular connection to Vajrapani,
afaik one needs at least 7th or 8th bhumi to get there.

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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Sentient Light » Wed May 22, 2019 5:58 pm

Tirthan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:11 pm
And if one does not have particular connection to Vajrapani,
afaik one needs at least 7th or 8th bhumi to get there.
I don't think that makes sense, considering Abhirati is mostly populated with sravakas, not bodhisattvas (although, yes, Vimalakirti and other bodhisattvas are also there).
:buddha1: Nam mô A di đà Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Quan Thế Âm Bồ tát :bow:
:bow: Nam mô Đại Thế Chi Bồ Tát :bow:

:buddha1: Nam mô Bổn sư Thích ca mâu ni Phật :buddha1:
:bow: Nam mô Di lặc Bồ tát :bow:
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Aemilius
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Re: Akshobhya Pure Land end

Post by Aemilius » Thu May 23, 2019 9:33 am

Tirthan wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:11 pm
Hi, I have not read all of the thread;
but afaik one really does not need to fear of decline of Dharma in Abhirati:
e.g. as I have read, Vajrasattva gives daily Ati-yoga teachings there.
Among others, Milaräpa resides there and also Mipham.

¿Have you not perhaps equivacated (eastern land of Abhirati) with eastern continent Purva-Videha
where people live pure lives, 250 years long, but without o profound dharma?
(https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Purvavideha)
It is said in the Sutra itself that the pureland will end one day, just read the very first posts!
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)

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