Buddha's non-Buddhist teachings!

[sraddha]

Thought I'd try my first poll!

So, I base the question on this passage from the Dirgha Nikaya (that's Digha for you Theravadis! )

There are various kinds of assemblies, O Ananda; assemblies of nobles, of Brahmans, of householders, of bhikkhus and of other beings.

When I used to enter an assembly, I always became, before I seated myself, in color like unto the color of my audience and in voice like unto their voice. I spoke unto them in their language and then with religious discourse, I instructed, quickened, and gladdened them.

But when I spoke, they knew me not and would say, Who may this be who thus speaks, a man or a god?

Then having instructed, quickened, and gladdened them with religious discourse, I would vanish away. But they knew me not, even when I vanished away

Buddha also said in the Sundarika Bharadavaja sutta (SN 3.4), that he was a counsellor and went around the world!

So which teachings do you think are Buddha's???

[genkaku]

Hi sraddha -- Teachings of whatever sort have at least a couple of dimensions: 1. The dimension that points out a direction and, perhaps, expands on the intellectual or heart-felt understanding of that direction. It is in this realm that people can wax 'ecumenical' or find meanings that overlap and point to a similar truth. 2. The dimension that asks the inconvenient question, "OK, there is a very good direction or truth, but what, precisely, IS that truth?" Not, "What philosophical or religious observations can I make, but what IS the reality of the truth I claim to love?" And it is in this realm, the realm of experience, that not even Buddhism is Buddhist.

Just a thought.

[DNS]

I don't get it. What do you mean "Buddha's non-Buddhist teachings." Do you mean "how do we interpret the Parinibbana Sutta in the above quote?

I see it as demonstrating skillful means.

"I remember well many assemblies of patricians, priests, householders, ascetics and gods…that I have attended. Before I sat with them, spoke to them or joined their conversation, I adopted their appearance and their speech whatever it might be and then I instructed them in Dhamma’ (D II,109). The Buddha told his monks and nuns that when teaching Dhamma in foreign parts they should adopt the language of the people they were living with" (M.III,235).

[sraddha]

Hi all!

By Buddha's "non-Buddhist teachings" I mean teachings that are not a part of traditional Buddhist schools, but were given to others throughout the world by Buddha-- but these people did not know that it was Buddha who gave them the teachings, thus he says, "but they knew me not!"

These teachings are not complete as well, but Buddha gives it to them to "gladden them" enough to get them to heaven due to his compassion, and perhaps help them gain enough merit to understand Buddha Dharma eventually!

I understand the DN passage to mean the following:

in China Buddha appeared Chinese and spoke perfect Chinese,
in Greece, he looked Greek and spoke perfect Greek.
in the Middle east, he looked middle eastern!

Now I am actively looking for African teachings! Buddha in Africa!

Now Mahayana Sutras such as the Diamond Sutra states clearly, "ALL DHARMAS ARE BUDDHA DHARMAS"

and Lankaavatara sutra states he is called by people by a bazillion names (all names of God), but none of them know him in reality.

[sraddha]

Why do I say Ezekiel, I would say Ezekiel is the weakest one, however Ezekiel is literally about karmic backlash :

[f] and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man.

27 I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him.

28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him.

This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.

Strangely enough, this is the first time the Biblical God actually is described with a human form,

Sn 3.11

Nalaka Sutta

The Sakyans then showed
to the seer named Asita
their son, the prince,
like gold aglow,
burnished by a most skillful smith
in the mouth of the furnace,
blazing with glory, flawless in color.
On seeing the prince blazing like flame,
pure like the bull of the stars
going across the sky
the burning sun,
released from the clouds of autumn
he was exultant, filled with abundant rapture;

MAJJHIMA NIKâYA II

5. 2. Selasuttaü

(92) To the Brahmin Sela

551. The bhikkhu with good looks is like a statue of gold
What is the use of your recluseship when so handsome?
O! Gotama, king of kings, win over the humans and rule".

554. The Blessed One said:
ßSela, I am the righteous king, incomparable,
Righteously I turn the wheel, not ever to be stopped.

[sraddha]

Even further proof in Ezekiel is the literary style which is very similar to the sutras, "Thus have I heard, the Lord was staying at ...at ONE TIME"

Ezekiel, always states the words as "Thus saith the Lord GOD" all throughout the book of Ezekiel!

Now for the second most popular choice -- Lao Tzu!

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O101-Laochun.html From the, The Concise Oxford Dictionary of World Religions | 1997 | JOHN BOWKER |

Lao-chun. The name of Lao-tzu in his deified form, one of the highest deities in religious Taoism. He has been incarnated many times, and is deeply revered as the supreme focus of worship. The reverence of both Lao-tzu and the Buddha led to a belief that Lao-tzu actually was the Buddha, who assumed that guise in order to convert all people to the way of Tao.

Buddha's and Lao Tzu's Long ears: Everyone is quite familiar with Buddha statues representing Buddha with very long ears, showing his great wisdom -- only Buddha has this peculiarity -- or does he??

http://www.taopage.org/laotzu.htmlLao-tzu surname was Li; as for his real name, Erh (meaning ear), which gave place after his death to Tan, which translates "long ears". Hence, in Legge's opinion, one may conclude that this name was attributed to him because of a certain peculiarity of his ears.

Now some quotes from Lao Tzu's Tao Te Tsing:

http://www.chinapage.com/gnl.html
1. The Way
The Way that can be experienced is not true;
The world that can be constructed is not true.
The Way manifests all that happens and may happen;
The world represents all that exists and may exist.

To experience without intention is to sense the world;
To experience with intention is to anticipate the world.
These two experiences are indistinguishable;
Their construction differs but their effect is the same.

Beyond the gate of experience flows the Way,
Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world.

[sraddha]

Buddha and Orpheus?



http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/pr/pr06.htm

According to Proclus, the salvation offered by this system was the freeing of the spirit from the wheel of physical rebirths. In his commentary on Plato's Timaeus, he said, "This is what those who are initiated by Orpheus to Dionysus and Kore pray that they may attain:

'To cease from the wheel and breathe again from ill.'"

Undoubtedly this was an Orphic formula for the salvation process. By Simplicius it was attributed to Orpheus himself. Appropriately, therefore, the purified Orphic soul was represented on the Campagno tablets as having escaped from the cycle of necessity and attained to the seats of the hallowed. Its joyful affirmation to the "Pure Queen of Them Below" was:

I have flown out of the sorrowful weary Wheel;
I have passed with eager feet to the Circle desired.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus

Plato in particular tells of a class of vagrant beggar-priests who would go about offering purifications to the rich, a clatter of books by Orpheus and Musaeus in tow (Republic 364c-d). Those who were especially devoted to these ritual and poems often practiced vegetarianism and abstention from sex, and refrained from eating eggs and beans — which came to be known as the Orphikos bios, or "Orphic way of life".[19]

[sraddha]

Buddha and Jesus? Is Buddha Melchizedek?



Jesus in John literally says that the teachings aren't his!

John 7:16 Jesus responded to them, "What I teach doesn't come from me but from the one who sent me.

8:26 but he who sent me is true and what he has said to me I say to the world.

Buddha in the Selau sutta of Majjhima Nikaya states that Buddha is the King of Kings and the King of Dhamma, or the King of the Law.

In the Bible, the The Torah and the Old Testament affirms that Melchizedek (lit. "King of the law", a title of the Buddha)was "priest of God Most High." (Genesis 14:18) King David in the Psalms refers to the future King of kings or Messiah as a "priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." (Psalm 110:1-4.)

Melchizedek is referred to again in Hebrews 5:6-10; Hebrews 6:20; Hebrews 7:1-21: "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek"; and Hebrews 8:1. The writer to the Hebrews points out that Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham. Since Levi was as yet unconceived by Abraham when he gave tithes to Melchizedek then it follows that the priestly office of Melchizedek is greater than the priesthood of Levi.

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises" (Hebrews 7:5-6).

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Hebrews 7:11-12).

Hebrews 7:3 in the New Testament refers to Melchizedek as a king "without father or mother or genealogy!"

Sundarika Bharadvaja who inquired about his lineage:

"No Brahmin I, no prince, No farmer, or aught else. All worldly ranks I know, But knowing go my way as simply nobody: Homeless, in pilgrim garb, With shaven crown, I go my way alone, serene. To ask my birth is vain."

Indeed, in Buddhism, the Buddhist priesthood, the Sangha, loses their birth identity:

"Just as whatever great rivers there are... on reaching the great ocean lose their former names and identities and are just called 'the great ocean,' so also (those of) the four castes ; nobles, brahmans, merchants, and workers &; having gone forth from home to the homeless state in the Dhamma and Discipline made known by the Tathagata, abandon their former names and identities and are just called 'recluses, the followers of the Sakyan son.' This is the fourth wonderful and marvellous quality in this Dhamma and Discipline...Udana 5.5 Uposatha Sutta The Observance

[Nicholas Weeks]

Ran across this old thread which means to me what several sutras say; that is, that a buddha or bodhisattva can appear as any person of any spiritual persuasion. Therefore Dharmic notions can appear, not exactly as Shakyamuni taught it in the suttas or sutras, but adjusted to fit the minds being taught.

All truths comes from Buddhas, and the Arya Sangha.

[Simon E.]

Why on earth was this considered worthy of necroing?

[Nicholas Weeks]

Why on earth was this considered worthy of necroing?

'Old is gold' is a saying. Also it helps Interfaith harmony to know there is (and has been for kalpas) a common source for all spiritual paths.

[MiphamFan]

Why on earth was this considered worthy of necroing?

'Old is gold' is a saying. Also it helps Interfaith harmony to know there is (and has been for kalpas) a common source for all spiritual paths.

Do you seriously think Christians, Jews and Muslims would accept that attributing all the good in their religions to manifestations of Buddhas is a good thing? They would see it as patronizing.

[Nicholas Weeks]

Why on earth was this considered worthy of necroing?

'Old is gold' is a saying. Also it helps Interfaith harmony to know there is (and has been for kalpas) a common source for all spiritual paths.

Do you seriously think Christians, Jews and Muslims would accept that attributing all the good in their religions to manifestations of Buddhas is a good thing? They would see it as patronizing.

Some would not, just as some Buddhists will not squirm at the idea that Light from facets of the diamond wisdom of buddhas is found in other religions.

That is why I wrote 'helps Interfaith harmony,' not produces a full symphony of fellow-feeling.

[Simon E.]

Why on earth was this considered worthy of necroing?

'Old is gold' is a saying. Also it helps Interfaith harmony to know there is (and has been for kalpas) a common source for all spiritual paths.

Establishing commonalities might be laudable. I doubt if this extremely odd thread will do that.

[dzogchungpa]

Well, I'm glad we got that straightened out.