There's way briefer than that. Perfect understanding comes from practice and checking with the teacher. Books can only help somewhat. The texts maintain the transmission lineage. But when it comes to the nitty gritty it's all pretty bare bones.Namdrol wrote:Yes, for example in Yangzab. As I said, insufficient for perfect understanding.adinatha wrote:You're a funny guy. This is bullshit. There are oral instructions of Togal even briefer than this.Namdrol wrote:Ye shes bla ma is only sufficient to begin practice.
Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen
Re: Elements
CAW!
Re: Elements
.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: Elements
Namdrol wrote:Reflection, reading and studying the most ancient Dzogchen texts is reflection. It is paramount.
N
So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: Elements
One can, but one will not be able to explain Dzogchen to others very well.Enochian wrote:Namdrol wrote:Reflection, reading and studying the most ancient Dzogchen texts is reflection. It is paramount.
N
So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?
N
Re: Elements
C'mon Enochian, it's high time you got your shit together and found yourself a teacher coz all this questioning of yours means nothing without practice (unless of course you are going to write a thesis about it all). Do yourself a favour: practice practice, practice!Enochian wrote:So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen
.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: Elements
Enochian wrote:gregkavarnos wrote:C'mon Enochian, it's high time you got your shit together and found yourself a teacher coz all this questioning of yours means nothing without practice (unless of course you are going to write a thesis about it all). Do yourself a favour: practice practice, practice!Enochian wrote:So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?
There are some things that bother me about Vajrayana and Dzogchen.
Do tell.
Re: Elements
This needs a whole new thread!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Elements
its counterintuitive anyway, so this is a normal perspective.Enochian wrote:
There are some things that bother me about Vajrayana and Dzogchen.
Re: Elements
.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: Elements
great stuff!
well done
well done
Re: Elements
False implication. Rig pa is not the same as the basis. Rig pa is one's knowledge of the basis. That basis is perfectly complete.Enochian wrote: 1. One cannot realize rigpa without transmission. That implies Dzogchen is conditioned.
I am very familiar with WET tradition, particularly the Crowleyan tradition. It is not even remotely the same.
2. I was working with chakras for my OBE and astral projection practice, before I even heard of "completion stage". You raise energy through your chakras in a trance state, and then you do a exit technique. No bullshit visualizations either, you just use body awareness and FEEL to manipulate the chakras. The chakras are already there, so why visualize? Where do you think you feel your emotions in your physical body?? The chakras.
N
Re: Elements
There were so many illiterate enlightened masters. The studying part is small compared to listening and contemplation. It just seems big when you're stuck in your head.
CAW!
Re: Elements
GET A TEACHER! And not necessarily a Vajrayana or Dzogchen teacher.
BEFORE you get yourself into some real trouble! Trouble you will NOT be able to deal with.
PS How can you say this
BEFORE you get yourself into some real trouble! Trouble you will NOT be able to deal with.
PS How can you say this
and then adulate OBE? It seems kindda contradictory.But I realized that western mysticism is a turd sandwhich.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Elements
...
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: Elements
adinatha wrote:There were so many illiterate enlightened masters. The studying part is small compared to listening and contemplation. It just seems big when you're stuck in your head.
Suit yourself. Just don't bother me with anymore questions. Thanks.
Re: Elements
Enochian wrote:gregkavarnos wrote:GET A TEACHER! And not necessarily a Vajrayana or Dzogchen teacher.
BEFORE you get yourself into some real trouble! Trouble you will NOT be able to deal with.
To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!
LOL
I don't understand why Namdrol thought I was a Crowley follower. Maybe because of my username? I only learned about western mysticism within the last couple of months, and came to the conclusion it was utter crap.
and there i was about to read the five magics....
Re: Elements
Enochian wrote: To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!
Remind me not to answer your questions either.
N
Re: Elements
Well that took you long enough. Longer than you might know even.Namdrol wrote:Remind me not to answer your questions either.Enochian wrote: To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
- Shabkar