I’ve been thinking and the logic chain I’m clinging to is: Anuttarayoga is true because it is taught by my Gurus who are Buddhas. My Gurus are Buddhas because the Three Bodies doctrines is true, it is true because the Mahayana is true, the Mahayana is true because Bodhicitta is true, Bodhicitta is true because rebirth and karma are true.
Please criticize this theory.
Here we go my replies:
Interesting. Do you have the quotes for more context?Virgo wrote:This idea is very wrong. For example, Manjushri stated that he appeared in other forms and taught the Shaivite and Vishnavaite mantras originally. This is because people did not have the ability to believe or perceive the whole truth. It takes much more merit to enter the Buddhist path to enlightenment.
The Medicine Buddha stated that the Buddhas appeared as Hindu gods to teach Ayurveda, etc.
I will.Norwegian wrote:You should read Wedemeyer's Making Sense of Tantric Buddhism. His book is very thorough.
I do believe in the validity of Emptiness and Selflessness. But that just supports Buddhism being true, not Anuttarayoga.Crazywisdom wrote:You don't need faith. Look at the superior concept. Buddha taught wisdom as a method and the methods are skills. And the skills are all lies that cut themselves down and leave open the door to pure perception, perception, not reality or truth but just a very clear eye. Think about this deeply and check if Shiva did that or not. Buddha is a pure relativist and Shiva is an absolutist. So of course Buddha would appear in the guise of whatever a person is into for the purpose of planting a skillful lie that breaks open the door to pure perception of the situation. Remember, we are talking about mirror-like wisdom. This is a mind that reflects what is really going on, no self-deception. Nothing more than this.
True. The Vedas were taught at Nalanda and Virupa (one example) was a master of them.heart wrote:Science is not always very helpful for practitioners because truth is a moving target in science. You have to keep that in mind while reading this kind of material. The question who copied who and what is the oldest and so on will change. There isn't really a religion called Hinduism anyway, it is actually a great number of different religions that have changed considerably over time. A few of the 84 Mahasiddhas actually practiced "Hindu" tantras but their storys have been faithfully transmitted in Tibet for a 1000 years, there is something there to have faith in.
The copying and intertextuality doesn’t bother me. So the Shaivites copied our Tantras. So what. It’s their Tantras being first.
So in other words, as other posters said, all external forms are mere skillful means pointing at the truths of Emptiness and Bodhichitta.ClearblueSky wrote:Maybe. I think it touches on something deeper though, which is: "If __ is just a copy/cultural influence/myth, is __ still a valid path to enlightenment?"
Buddhist tantras seem to be influenced by other tantras/traditions. The objects deities hold reflect the time and culture the teaching was from (which could be because of perfect manifestations, or it could be because they are just from human imagination). There is not much historical proof that Buddha Shakyamuni existed. Many "relative" things from teachings are flat-out wrong, such as how the earth is composed. Omniscient mahasiddhas make metaphors to nature in dohas that we now know are totally inaccurate.
If all those things are the case, is the Dharma still a valid teaching? I think so, but since we can't really know until we're enlightened, I think it's a valid question.
I like this thought.
lol quite right. Trijang Rinpoche says the same thing.tiagolps wrote:Does hindu tantra uphold the mahāyāna or bodhisattva yāna?
https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/vario ... cts-tantra
What about the passage in the Chakrasamvara Tantra teaching methods to sneak into harems and sleep with women? I’m not being sarcastic. I want an answer. How is that Buddhist?Grigoris wrote:Another option is to examine these practices via the prism of the Four Dharma Seals, if they satisfy the requirements, then theoretically they are Dharma and so...