Kuntu Zangpo

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kalden yungdrung
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Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:50 pm

Tashi delek Nyingmapas, :anjali:

Have a question to you which i cannot answer so 123.
You have the Adi Buddha Kuntu Zangpo as the source or Adi Buddha.

Question:
Why is it not in Nyingma, that Samantabhadra is here the Adi Buddha ?

Thanks in advance for your effort.



Best wishes and a nice day
KY.
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philji
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by philji » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:11 pm

Is it not the same.. Samantabhadra being sanskrit name and Kuntu Zangpo . The tibetan?

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:50 pm

philji wrote:Is it not the same.. Samantabhadra being sanskrit name and Kuntu Zangpo . The tibetan?
Thanks for your reply.

Yes it is similar qua essence, that is what is everywhere written, no doubt about it.
But i guess Nyingma would not change for Samantabhadra, because they make use of Kuntu Zangpo, if i am informed well here.

So Sanskrit is not a Tibetan language, but many Sanskrit words/terms etc.would be added to Tibetan.
Therefore maybe the Sanskrit (Dzogchen) Lineage might not be of Tibetan origen and because of that we can speak about 2 different Dzogchen Lineages

Know, we have also Indian Dzogchen in Bön, but nevertheless , we use Kuntu Zangpo.
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:52 pm

I've only heard Tibetan Nyingma lamas use the two terms interchangeably: Samantabhadra and Kuntuzangpo. It's only been explained to me that these two names refer to the same Dharmakaya Buddha, not two different Buddhas.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:22 am

tomamundsen wrote:I've only heard Tibetan Nyingma lamas use the two terms interchangeably: Samantabhadra and Kuntuzangpo. It's only been explained to me that these two names refer to the same Dharmakaya Buddha, not two different Buddhas.

Tashi delek T,

Thanks for the reply.

According John Reynolds:
With reference to the Dharmakaya, the same designation of Kuntu Zangpo is employed for the Primordial Buddha in the scriptures of both the Old Schools, the Nyingmapa and the Bönpo.

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=21750

That it is in Nyingma interchangeably, that is what i did not know before.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by Lingpupa » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:48 pm

tomamundsen wrote:I've only heard Tibetan Nyingma lamas use the two terms interchangeably: Samantabhadra and Kuntuzangpo. It's only been explained to me that these two names refer to the same Dharmakaya Buddha, not two different Buddhas.
Yes, Kuntuzangpo is a straightforward translatioin of Samantabhadra, "All-Good" if you like. We should be wary that as well as the Kuntuzangpo/Samantabhadra you've been talking about here, there is another Kuntuzangpo/Samantabhadra, one of the eight great bodhisattvas, and a different figure entirely. This other one is the one associated with liturgical lines about "clouds of offerings like those of Samantabhadra".

That doesn't add much to your discussion, but it would be a pity if anyone were to confuse the two.
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:55 am

Lingpupa wrote: Yes, Kuntuzangpo is a straightforward translatioin of Samantabhadra, "All-Good" if you like.
Maybe possible, Samantabhadra is a is a straightforward translation of Kuntu Zangpo ?
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:21 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Lingpupa wrote: Yes, Kuntuzangpo is a straightforward translatioin of Samantabhadra, "All-Good" if you like.
Maybe possible, Samantabhadra is a is a straightforward translation of Kuntu Zangpo ?
From PKTC Illuminator Dictionary:
>> ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ་
>> <noun> Translation of the Sanskrit [NDS] "samantabhadra". 1) Samantabhadra is commonly used as a person`s name in Sanskrit. The term literally means good throughout, and comes to mean "totally good", "nothing but good". It is often translated as "all-good". 2) "Samantabhadra". The name of the primordial principle of buddhahood according to the nye ba`i sras brgyad');">'dod ma`i sangs rgyas adibuddha is regarded as the actual dharmakāya whereas Vajradhara is regarded as the saṃbhogakāya of the dharmakāya. 3) "Samantabhadra". The name of one of the nye ba`i sras brgyad eight mahābodhisatvas who were the closest disciples of Śhākyamuni Buddha. Samantabhadra was known for his kun tu bzang po`i spyod pa conduct, which exemplifies the activity of the Mahāyāna and the vast motivation that goes with it. 4) "Samantabhadra", the name of a particular, former buddha.

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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:40 pm

tomamundsen wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Lingpupa wrote: Yes, Kuntuzangpo is a straightforward translatioin of Samantabhadra, "All-Good" if you like.
Maybe possible, Samantabhadra is a is a straightforward translation of Kuntu Zangpo ?
From PKTC Illuminator Dictionary:
>> ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ་
>> <noun> Translation of the Sanskrit [NDS] "samantabhadra". 1) Samantabhadra is commonly used as a person`s name in Sanskrit. The term literally means good throughout, and comes to mean "totally good", "nothing but good". It is often translated as "all-good". 2) "Samantabhadra". The name of the primordial principle of buddhahood according to the nye ba`i sras brgyad');">'dod ma`i sangs rgyas adibuddha is regarded as the actual dharmakāya whereas Vajradhara is regarded as the saṃbhogakāya of the dharmakāya. 3) "Samantabhadra". The name of one of the nye ba`i sras brgyad eight mahābodhisatvas who were the closest disciples of Śhākyamuni Buddha. Samantabhadra was known for his kun tu bzang po`i spyod pa conduct, which exemplifies the activity of the Mahāyāna and the vast motivation that goes with it. 4) "Samantabhadra", the name of a particular, former buddha.
Tashi delek T,

Thanks for your contribution.

- Is this the Nyingma view ?
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:35 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Tashi delek T,

Thanks for your contribution.

- Is this the Nyingma view ?
As far as I understand it, yes. The PKTC Illuminator is Lama Tony Duff's brainchild. Lama Tony Duff is a Nyingmapa lama. I've heard other English-speaking Nyingmapa lamas teach the same thing as well.

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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by tingdzin » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:57 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:Maybe possible, Samantabhadra is a is a straightforward translation of Kuntu Zangpo ?
Sorry, no. I am quite willing to consider the Bonpo perspective on things, but in this case, there is just too much evidence to the contrary -- to much to even be summarized here.

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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:54 am

tingdzin wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:Maybe possible, Samantabhadra is a is a straightforward translation of Kuntu Zangpo ?
Sorry, no. I am quite willing to consider the Bonpo perspective on things, but in this case, there is just too much evidence to the contrary -- to much to even be summarized here.
Tashi delek T,

Well here, i don`t want to consider the Bön version, namely that in Bön, Kuntu Zangpo is the Adi Buddha.
Its only that i have read / heard, that Kuntu Zangpo would be the Adi Buddha in Nyingma, and that is not the case, i see.
But i also don`t see in Bön, regarding the ZZNG, that Kuntu Zangpo is a is a straightforward translation of Samantabhadra .........
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by mutsuk » Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:54 pm

What confusion! What confusion! What confusion!
Please KL, can you stop writing about Bön so long as you don't get a minimum of correct knowledge about it ? This is so saddening to this lineage portrayed the way you do it...
kalden yungdrung wrote:Well here, i don`t want to consider the Bön version, namely that in Bön, Kuntu Zangpo is the Adi Buddha.
So to be clear: you don't want to consider that in Bön Kuntuzangpo is the Adibuddha? But that's what you've been saying since the beginning...Kuntuzangpo is indeed the Adibuddha.
Its only that i have read / heard, that Kuntu Zangpo would be the Adi Buddha in Nyingma, and that is not the case, i see.
For Buddha's sake, it IS the case! What is wrong with you ?

Can't you understand once and for all that Kuntuzangpo is the translation in tibetan of the sanskrit name Samantabhadra ?
— Kun tu = samanta
— bzang po = badhra.
My goodness...

The Adibuddha in Nyingma texts is called Kuntuzangpo.
The Adibhuddha in Bönpo texts is called Kuntuzangpo.
This is same Buddha.
When translators render their translations they translate the Adibuddha's name back into sanskrti, hence Samantabhadra.
You are being completely delusional and bring dramatic confusion in most of you write about Bön, constantly trying to present Bön as "better", "older", "higher", etc. This is nonsense. Bön as we have it now is a Sarma phenomenon.

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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:33 pm

For the good order.

- For me Kuntu Zangpo is the Adi Buddha in Bön.It would be ridiculous NOT to know this
- Kuntu Zangpo is the Adi Buddha in Nyingma ? That was here the question.

And we saw that it is and was so the case.

Further we should consider the negative way of Mutsuk in approaching corrections and finding a stick to beat the dog / shooting the bird down, which would be Kalden here. (see the Lung Tha story). The more minus points i and others get, the more it is clear who has authority.

But in the world of Bön Mutsuk and Achard don`t have this authority, nevertheless, their English is perfect and there would be some translations here and there and knowledge about Bön.

Academic seen, these folks are "great" but as persons, they are not and that can i prove with many other Bönpos from Shenten Dargye Ling / France.
These Bönpos there are with me on one line Mutsuk, and that is your + (Jean Luc Achard) problem, not to be number one in Shenten Dargye Ling, as the head translator there. I got big problems with these Bönpos when they heard i knew Achard, that did cost me nearly my reputation. But i did recover from their attacks and for that i am happy.

This job has Dmitry and John Reynolds and you know why, no doubt about it. This reason i better don`t publish here.

But maybe you or Achard will succeed in getting my person here blamed and banned, who knows.I guess that Mutsuk = Achard.

All in all i do not like the way how you + Achard, correct people, because of misunderstandings etc. which is human. I get a negative feeling if i see a comment from you, cannot help it.
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mutsuk
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by mutsuk » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:47 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:Further we should consider the negative way of Mutsuk in approaching corrections and finding a stick to beat the dog / shooting the bird down, which would be Kalden here.
Maybe it would be good to consider also the fact that you bring a considerable amount of confusion about Bön here. And please, leave JLA outside of this, he has nothing to do with my involvment with you. You're just doing a disservice to Bön.
All in all i do not like the way how you + Achard, correct people, because of misunderstandings etc. which is human.
You are constantly presenting Bön in opposition to Buddhism, which is quite weird on a buddhist forum...
I get a negative feeling if i see a comment from you, cannot help it.
Well, it's because your being so stubborn about everything you write. Nearly each time someone tries to explain you something, if it does not fit your hegemonic agendas about Bön you simply come back again and again with the same arguments, etc. See how difficult it's been to have you understand that Kuntuzangpo is the translation of Samantabhadra?

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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by Norwegian » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:05 pm

Here's how this topic would've turned out if virtually anybody else had asked the following question:

OP: "Is Kuntuzangpo the same as Samantabhadra, or different?"

Answer: "Kuntuzangpo is Tibetan, Samantabhadra is Sanskrit. Both refers to the same Buddha."

OP: "Ah I see! Thank you."

The end.

mutsuk
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by mutsuk » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:21 pm

Exactly! :thumbsup:

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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by kalden yungdrung » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:32 pm

Norwegian wrote:Here's how this topic would've turned out if virtually anybody else had asked the following question:

OP: "Is Kuntuzangpo the same as Samantabhadra, or different?"

Answer: "Kuntuzangpo is Tibetan, Samantabhadra is Sanskrit. Both refers to the same Buddha."

OP: "Ah I see! Thank you."

The end.
:good:
Am glad to know now, that Kuntu Zangpo is used by Nyingma as Adi Buddha, and that was finally my question which is for 108% answered . :cheers:
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Re: Kuntu Zangpo

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:26 pm

Yes, in Nyingma, Samantabhadra is "adi buddha," and Kuntu Zangpo is simply the Tibetan translation for the Sanskrit words samanta and bhadra. This is pretty common knowledge.

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