Bardo of Dying

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
sangyey
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:00 am

Bardo of Dying

Post by sangyey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:16 pm

Hello,

I am unsure of when the bardo of dying starts. Does it start after someone has taken their last breath and would technically be pronounced dead or does it start like say if someone were in a hospice and only had a few days to live would it start around that time?

Thank you.

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:32 pm

The scriptures say that at the moment of death, the human will see a bright, clear, impressive light inside his mind. This is the clear light of reality that is so hard to see in living life. This moment can last for seconds or longer time. After that, the bardo starts and there is all kind of visions about Samsara. At this point, there are attempts to guide the dead person into Nirvana by talking and helping the person through his travel of visions in the bardo.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by jkarlins » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:50 pm

No, it has to do with inner and outer breath, I think.

More experienced folks, please advise.

Jake

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:11 pm

jkarlins wrote:
More experienced folks, please advise.

Jake
That is rude. But no offence taken, just my two cents at the moment. Thanks for my contribution. lol

mutsuk
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by mutsuk » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:31 pm

sangyey wrote:Hello,

I am unsure of when the bardo of dying starts. Does it start after someone has taken their last breath and would technically be pronounced dead or does it start like say if someone were in a hospice and only had a few days to live would it start around that time?

Thank you.
Yongdzin Rinpoche explained once that the Bardo of dying starts when all the circumstances (rkyen) leading to irreversible death are combined together. It lasts until the cessation of the movement of the inner winds, a cessation that leads to the disconnection of the mind and the body. After that starts the Bardo of the primordially pure Absolute Body (ka dag bon sku'i bar do).

User avatar
sangyey
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by sangyey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:58 pm

Okay, thank you. I think that makes sense then that it would start before you would technically be pronounced dead. I know that in the teachings on the Bardo of Dying they talk about the dissolution of the five senses and I guess then that that starts at the very end of one's life (when the irreversible causes to death are present) and not after the last breath being technically pronounced dead. It then seems like one would be able to witness and perhaps look for signs of the senses dissolving during this bardo phase.

User avatar
sangyey
Posts: 450
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:00 am

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by sangyey » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:08 pm

I'm sorry.... I meant the elements not the 5 senses eventhough I think they would be included too.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by jkarlins » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:56 pm

odysseus wrote:
jkarlins wrote:
More experienced folks, please advise.

Jake
That is rude. But no offence taken, just my two cents at the moment. Thanks for my contribution. lol
Nope, just a correction. I thought there was a more technical explanation.

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:55 am

jkarlins wrote:
odysseus wrote: That is rude. But no offence taken, just my two cents at the moment. Thanks for my contribution. lol
Nope, just a correction. I thought there was a more technical explanation.
You were rude and should apologise. What is the point of answering on this forum if just even a simple answer that is not to somebody's liking will get a reaction that make you feel like s*it?

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by jkarlins » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:45 am

but were you correct

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:20 am

jkarlins wrote:but were you correct
Hell, I don't know. Just have compassion for my attempt. :smile:

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by jkarlins » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:27 am

you can do better

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:18 pm

jkarlins wrote:you can do better
Thanks for your faith in me, bro. Remember that no-one are unfit for the Buddha's order. Now stay tuned for this: :focus:

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by jkarlins » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:24 pm

you're welcome, agreed

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17359
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:07 pm

odysseus wrote:That is rude.
It is not rude, you jump in and and offer an (uninformed) opinion (stating it like it is a fact), when people are asking for facts. If the other person does not know that you don't have a clue, then they will be lead astray. Now THAT is frakin' rude!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17359
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by Grigoris » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:26 pm

sangyey wrote:Hello,

I am unsure of when the bardo of dying starts. Does it start after someone has taken their last breath and would technically be pronounced dead or does it start like say if someone were in a hospice and only had a few days to live would it start around that time?

Thank you.
I recommend the book "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" tranlsated by Gyurme Dorje. It is the most complete translation available.

I also recommend this video teaching by Garchen Rinpoche:

phpBB [video]


And this series of teachings by Chamtrul Rinpoche:

phpBB [video]
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:56 pm

Grigoris wrote:
odysseus wrote:That is rude.
It is not rude, you jump in and and offer an (uninformed) opinion (stating it like it is a fact), when people are asking for facts. If the other person does not know that you don't have a clue, then they will be lead astray. Now THAT is frakin' rude!
I thought this misunderstanding was settled with Jake, but you have to comment on it once again. I say what I said comes from light reading of Bardo Thodol. I didn't say it was fact. Read the book for yourself instead. I am not out to mislead anyone, but since I am not completely enligthened, I can not appease this forum which expects you to be perfect all the time. :soapbox:

Maybe my answer was not what you guys are looking for, but it is in accordance with the Bardo Thodol. In a very condensed version.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17359
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by Grigoris » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:07 pm

odysseus wrote:I thought this misunderstanding was settled with Jake, but you have to comment on it once again. I say what I said comes from light reading of Bardo Thodol. I didn't say it was fact. Read the book for yourself instead. I am not out to mislead anyone, but since I am not completely enligthened, I can not appease this forum which expects you to be perfect all the time. :soapbox:

Maybe my answer was not what you guys are looking for, but it is in accordance with the Bardo Thodol. In a very condensed version.
It is not rocket science dude, here are some pointers.

When you are expressing an opinion, start the sentence with: "I believe..." or "My opinion is..."

When you don't have a frakin' clue: Don't say anything.

When ambiguous: Direct the question asker to trusted sources.

Easy, isn't it?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

odysseus
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by odysseus » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:26 pm

Grigoris wrote: When you are expressing an opinion, start the sentence with: "I believe..." or "My opinion is..."
Ah, my dude! I believe not in anything but Nirvana. Otherwise, my beliefs are just mind-made views. My opinion is what I say already.
Grigoris wrote:
When you don't have a frakin' clue: Don't say anything.
I do have a clue, or I would not be a Buddhist. And not speak.
Grigoris wrote:
When ambiguous: Direct the question asker to trusted sources.
Sure, but are you a trusted source yourself? Are you entitled to admonish me?
Grigoris wrote:
Easy, isn't it?
Buddhism is easy. You need only knowledge and training. The harder part is to talk about it.

User avatar
Tiago Simões
Posts: 928
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Bardo of Dying

Post by Tiago Simões » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:27 pm

odysseus wrote:I believe not in anything but Nirvana
What Nirvana? :tongue:

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: billy hudson, falcon, heart, jorden and 73 guests