Vajrasattva More Effective?

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Tenma
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Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Tenma »

How does one make the purification of Vajrasattva More effective? I've been following the sadhana on my root guru's website(Ewam Choden) and was wondering how to make it more effective. I've made the 8 offerings(Ok Argham Ah Hum, Om Padyam Ah Hum, etc.) with their mudras and followed the advice of heavy bodhicitta. Is there any other way to make the practice more effective? These, 28 long and 108 short don't seem to be enough.
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tranides
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by tranides »

Generaly speaking those are things i keep in mind (since i heard them from my teachers) when im doing any practice: feeling presence of diety, trust in your Lama teachings, loosing expectations and attachment to result, and practice more.

regards,
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Try to focus more on the four powers: 1) Power of support 2) power of remorse 3) power of antidote 4) power of resolve

You don't have to do too many mantras, but really trust the practice. Do it to the best of your capabilities for the benefit of all beings. Clear visualization, feel real remorse over all those bad things you have done and be set to really not do it again and really focus when repeating the mantra on the nectar or whatever visualization is during the mantra part.

If you feel like it is not enough and want to do bigger number of mantras then it would be better to do more sessions than more mantras in one session. For example do a short session with 28 long and 108 short mantras and then dissolve and relax. After some time relaxing without doing anything (5,10 or as many minutes as you can or like) repeat the whole meditation. This way you will be able to have clearer visualization and be more focused.
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Soma999
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Soma999 »

Hi,

The more you practice the more efficient it becomes.

Don't try to control too much, have faith on Vajrasattva who is one with your guru, all gurus, all buddhas, all yidams, all dakinis, one with wisdom mind, and who have intense love for you and all sentient beings.

Lama Zopa Rinpoche gives 3 visualisations for purification :

(source : https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/vajra ... recitation)
The first mode of purification, using the first style of visualization is called purification from above, because what is in the nature of the exalted wisdom realizing emptiness is appearing in the aspect of ambrosia or nectar, and is flowing down from the top of your head into your body. This drives out various impurities in the form of smoky water, or dirty colored water, from the bottom of your body. Therefore it is called purification from above.

Another style of visualization you can do is what is called purification from below. In this case, even though the nectar or ambrosia is flowing down from the deities on top of your head, it’s filling the body from the bottom upwards and the impurities of the body and mind are like dirty water that comes out near the top of your body. This method is called purification from below.

The third style of visualization and purification is for those people who are engaged in the yoga of gathering all the energies or winds into yourself. This is not helpful if you are imagining your energies going out from your body. In this case, all the impurities and so forth are imagined as a mass of darkness at your heart and the nectar or ambrosia enters in the form of light that immediately, instantaneously, clears away the darkness without anything going outside. This method is like turning on a light to get rid of the darkness in a room.
Power comes from the heart, sincerity. Do it with the sincere desire to grow, to shine, to bring good things to yourself and others. Do it as an offering of your darkness so that the light shines. Do that out of a sincere desire to contribute to bring value in others's life and your's too. Intention and faith is what makes the mantra powerful. Faith is dependent upon love. And love manifests when intention gives it space to grow. The best space is to do it not only for *you"*, but for *us".
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by MalaBeads »

Soma 999 wrote:
Power comes from the heart, sincerity. Do it with the sincere desire to grow, to shine, to bring good things to yourself and others. Do it as an offering of your darkness so that the light shines. Do that out of a sincere desire to contribute to bring value in others's life and your's too. Intention and faith is what makes the mantra powerful. Faith is dependent upon love. And love manifests when intention gives it space to grow. The best space is to do it not only for *you"*, but for *us".

This is very lovely. Thank you. :namaste:
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Tenma
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Tenma »

Just one more question. In the Samadhi after dissolving the deity into our self, is there just concentrating on pure emptiness or do thoughts of purifyijg oneself for others or what exactly?
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Soma999 »

You become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.

I would advise that you read some books that explain well how the generation and completion phase works, because this is essential in tantric meditation. The more you learn, the more you gain.

I highly suggest this book which gives very good explanation. There are many others of course.

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cky
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by cky »

tranides wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:28 am Generaly speaking those are things i keep in mind (since i heard them from my teachers) when im doing any practice: feeling presence of diety, trust in your Lama teachings, loosing expectations and attachment to result, and practice more.
Seconded. Solid advice in my experience.
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by jkarlins »

Just do it more. Build up to slightly longer sessions of meditation. You can recite the mantra, if you've received this practice, at any time during your day. Immerse yourself. There are long and short versions to the mantra. The short version may be easier to recite during the day.
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明安 Myoan
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by 明安 Myoan »

Soma999 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:00 pm You become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.
Don't you need transmission to visualize yourself as any deity?
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by passel »

Patrul’s answer to that question seems to be, “shamatha”.
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Vasana »

As others have said, the 4 opppnent powers are crucial here. Just going through the motions of visualization and mantra won't have as much of an effect as actually sincerely developing and applying the 4 opponent powers. To the degree that you apply them with the practice will the effectiveness be lesser, middling or higher.
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Soma999
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Soma999 »

Monlam Tharchin wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:16 pm
Soma999 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:00 pm You become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.
Don't you need transmission to visualize yourself as any deity?
Certainly one should take the empowerment if the circonstances allow it. That would be a wise idea.
Tenma
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Tenma »

Monlam Tharchin wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:16 pm
Soma999 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:00 pm You become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.
Don't you need transmission to visualize yourself as any deity?
The sadhana from my guru isn't a self-visualization thing. It's the deity in front of you and pouring nectar onto you.
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Tenma
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Tenma »

Soma999 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:00 pm You become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.

I would advise that you read some books that explain well how the generation and completion phase works, because this is essential in tantric meditation. The more you learn, the more you gain.

I highly suggest this book which gives very good explanation. There are many others of course.

So although this is not becoming the deity thing nor received empowerment, you become that at samadhi?
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Tenma
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Tenma »

Tenma wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:22 pm
Soma999 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:00 pm You become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.

I would advise that you read some books that explain well how the generation and completion phase works, because this is essential in tantric meditation. The more you learn, the more you gain.

I highly suggest this book which gives very good explanation. There are many others of course.

So although this is not becoming the deity thing nor received empowerment, you become deity at samadhi?
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Soma999 »

Maybe you just dissolve Vajrasattva in yourself and feel He blesses your three doors and feel you are one with Him.

But if you have a teacher, why don't you ask him/her ? Because there are different way to proceed, and your teacher may give you the approach that is the more appropriate for you at this moment.

Taken from :
https://www.lamayeshe.com/article/vajra ... recitation
At the end of the session, whatever number of repetitions of the 100-syllable mantra you have done, make a statement to Vajrasattva about how sorry you are for all the ill deeds you have done in the past, and declare your strong intention to avoid these ill deeds in the future. Then imagine that the Vajrasattva that you have been meditating on dissolves into you. That finishes the meditation session, then you can go out and do more ill deeds. So, this finishes the explanation of the Vajrasattva meditation and recitation.
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Grigoris »

Empowerment is the key to Vajrayana practice.

That and the guru.

Not that the two are mutually exclusive...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Grigoris
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by Grigoris »

Soma999 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:00 pmYou become the deity. Your body is tranformed into the body of the deity. All sounds become the mantra. You are the deity. And you purify with the chant of the mantra.
Not without empowerment. Without empowerment this is, at best, a waste of time.
Maybe you just dissolve Vajrasattva in yourself and feel He blesses your three doors and feel you are one with Him.
Maybe you should stop offering advice about things you are not qualified to talk about nor, it seems, you have any clue of? Yeah, that would probably be a good idea.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
emaho
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Re: Vajrasattva More Effective?

Post by emaho »

Tenma wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 amThese, 28 long and 108 short don't seem to be enough.
Why are you thinking it isn't enough?

A lot of people think that when they practice Vajrasattva something extreme is going to happen. There are lots of stories, like "boah, dude, I just said one mala of Vajrasattva mantras and instantaneously my house burnt down, the next day my wife left me and the dog got run over by a car, boah dude, really heavy purification". And some people think if nothing dramatic happens they're not practicing right. But this is a misconception. This is something that teachers say very often: don't expect anything extraordinary to happen, just say the mantra and focus on the visualisation as good as you can and have confidence that it works. Don't be disappointed if your house doesn't burn down. (And don't leave candles unattended, either.)
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