Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

bcol01
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Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by bcol01 »

I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
In his writing, Hokkemongu (Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra), The Great Master Nichiren said, “If the practitioners of the Lotus Sutra wholeheartedly devote their life to the Lotus Sutra and practice according to its golden words, it is certainly needless to say that not only in the next life, but also in this lifetime they will overcome severe difficulty, prolong their life, receive the great, good fortune of unsurpassed enlightenment, and accomplish the great vow of the widespread, propagation of True Buddhism.”
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
There's pretty much no short way to explain why the Buddhist view of these things is different from what they are saying, and there is no point in replying, generally speaking. Someone who takes for granted the (mostly Abrahamic) model of life the universe, and divinity is simply not on the same page with us, generally speaking.

I try to remind myself that most people are not involved in particularly deep religious thought and that "God" is really a catch all term for all they see as positive, all they are grateful for etc. As this goes, I feel like their gratitude towards God is a positive drive for many people, and indeed I know many people who view the world this way who I believe are better off for their belief.

It's when it becomes a case of being pushy with their (usually quite shallow and unexamined) religious view that it bugs, but honestly, it is pretty rare. Most people I know who say things like this mean well when they are saying them, and I have no desire to correct them or take issue with it unless they are actually interested in the Buddhist view.
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Queequeg
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Queequeg »

Well, not nothing. Just no-self. :shrug:
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Motova
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Motova »

Oh my God?

Om I God!
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by jkarlins »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
There was probably a context.

In any case, it's a word. We have words in Buddhism, just like Christians and Jews have words.

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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Aryjna »

One way to interpret it is that his/her life would have no meaning without his/her religion. Which is probably applicable for many dharma practitioners as well.
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by markatex »

:shrug:

I'd probably avoid having these conversations with this person if they're going to be as argumentative as they seem.
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by PuerAzaelis »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
Without God, we are nothing? I'd say that's an accurate statement.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by seeker242 »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
I would say the person definitely believes in God. :twothumbsup:
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by amanitamusc »

I think of the big baby on Teletubbies.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=te ... ORM=VRDGAR
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

amanitamusc wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:02 am I think of the big baby on Teletubbies.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=te ... ORM=VRDGAR
:rolling:
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Wayfarer »

Would a Buddhist say, 'without Dharma, we are condemned to exist forever in samsara'? Which, while not the same, ain't that far off.
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu »

Wayfarer wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:17 am Would a Buddhist say, 'without Dharma, we are condemned to exist forever in samsara'? Which, while not the same, ain't that far off.
to mock a teaching that enables sentients to perform good karmic deeds and avoid bad ones is just really bad karma. lol..

i'm a firm believer in what a Geshe once told me.(not direct quotes but i recall the gist of it) Any teaching that produces loving kindness in a sentient is here due to The Buddha's Turning of The Dharma Wheel. He said it might seem odd to you that even a teaching like God the Creator , something that is non Buddhist thought, would come from the Buddha.

but for some it is the perfect teaching to allow them to build merit....

I've pondered this to the point it makes perfect sense...
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by srivijaya »

bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
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Minobu
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Minobu »

srivijaya wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
srivijaya wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
He didn't leave anyone out, he just taught the Dharma, it is entirely up to beings to follow it of their own volition. In fact, to truly follow it, it has to be done of their own volition. So yeah other religions can be great, but there is no need to see them as somehow being Dharma.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by srivijaya »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..
Some Christians with a conscience ask questions like; if a primitive tribe have never even heard of Christ is it fair they go to hell? Surely God wouldn't just abandon them...

It's a serious issue for those within religions looking outwards. There are the 'deserving condemned' (the willful bad guys, who trash every opportunity) and the 'innocently condemned'. The liberal-minded like to keep a space in their hearts for the innocent ones, hard-liners are not as forgiving.
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Lindama »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:53 pm Well, not nothing. Just no-self. :shrug:
that is what is meant in the Christian tradition when they say .... you must enter the kingdom as children.

I'm not well schooled in this.... maybe Christ said this, I dunno. It's in the bible....

I flunked Religion 101 in college, had to repeat it as a mandatory course.... I hated it. I was a very good student, except for that. When I learned how the Bible had been written and re-written according to who had power at the time. know anything about that? Christ and Buddha lived in a similar time.... as happens with sages in time. It's a good thing that I flunked, I walked away without the wounding. I was raised Swedish Lutheran, it was a good culteral/social/spiritual upbringing in that order. I helped teach Sunday school as a teen... with a woman who taught the kids that Jesus had walked down her hallway in her house and she had knelt down to kiss his robe .... certainly helped to develop my critical thinking skills.

With regard to this thread, it's surprising how Buddhist display such ignorance about another tradition. I have not belonged to a church in 50 years, but I do have a sensibility which crosses spiritual boundaries. Except for all the trappings and dogma, I suspect that Christ and Buddha would have been good brothers. Some say they met, I don't know.

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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by Lindama »

Minobu wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:05 am
srivijaya wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:29 pm
bcol01 wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:22 pm I wondered what my Buddhist friends here might say to that line of thinking. :namaste: :popcorn:
From a Christian POV it's spot on:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It's all formless and empty, then like form arises from emptiness and er... yeah. So that's why it's not Buddhism.
Do you think that if it isn't Buddhist thought it can't be from The Turning of The Dharma Wheel.
the mere mention of this is your first and last life is enough to run ...but even that ...for those that truly practice the teachings of Christ...no matter how watered down they might even be....they create positive merit and their mind stream bends towards compassion...Thats the Buddha's intention is it not...Why would Buddha leave all those with out the merit to meet True Dharma...have nothing to guide them..albeit a slow slow pace of merit producing Karma eradicating practices...


i truly see the Buddha's intent and power to protect and keep those lower teachings in the samsaric realms.
The spirit of God hovering over the waters...... is the Wisdom of Sophia...... it's easily a buddhist sensibility as well on the inner plane.... since when is form not Buddhism??? The turning of the dharma wheel excludes nothing.... there is no such thing as lower teachings.

We have enough of this exceptionalism in our politics, we must see it for what it is.... and see the Buddha in everything. Else, forget it.

linda

ps... I notice this has been posted in Nichiren. I'm not responding in kind. The question appeared to be more general.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Recently, a family member told me that "without God, we are nothing".

Post by narhwal90 »

Lindama wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:29 am I suspect that Christ and Buddha would have been good brothers. Some say they met, I don't know.

linda


Ajahn Brahm and an Anglican(IIRC) Archbishop discuss what Jesus and Sakyamuni might have discussed if they had met... its light stuff but interesting in its own way.
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