sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

The best place for discussion of current events. News about Buddhists and Buddhism is particularly welcome.
DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9411
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by DGA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:16 am

It's been a problem for years, obviously, but not everyone has cared or believed the women who have spoken up about it. This is especially clear when you look at highly public instances that involve politicians, from the public humiliation of Anita Hill to the present.

Tomorrow, Sen. Al Franken will probably resign from the Senate because he's a serial harrasser. He has tried to take responsibility for this in some way (contrast this against the pedophile running for Senate in Alabama, the cowboy cosplayer Roy Moore). Because he's a Democrat, he's going to resign. Why? Because Democrats have to present themselves as caring about women voters. They have to take the high ground. They have to "believe women." That's why John Conyers had to go too.

Remember the Clinton administration? Democrats didn't exactly believe women such as Gennifer Flowers or Juanita Broaddrick or Paula Jones, but Republicans sure did. They still do when the accused creep is a Democrat. This is another reason why Franken has to go, actually. So long as Franken is in the Senate, the GOP can use the moral equivalency logic of any seven year old: sure, our guy's a kid toucher and the president is a sex assault enthusiast (more on that in a moment), but hey, Al Franken is still sitting in the Senate, so what do you care? You didn't speak up when Joe Biden ran Anita Hill through the ringer, or when Clinton was in the spotlight for being a creep, did you?

Republicans don't usually "believe women" when their guy is accused*, however (and I'm bracketing cases in which Republican politicians are caught with adult men, such as Larry Craig, or male children, such as Mark Foley). You can see this with Roy Moore and especially with the 45th President of the United States, Mr. Tropicana Jong-Un. Remember the accusations made against this guy? A lot of women do, and for a party that "believes women," the Democrats have done a piss poor job reminding anyone that this matters or leveraging it to make any meaningful change happen. And there's this:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/summer-ze ... mar-a-lago

Maybe something will come of it. But to the point:

The difference is that Republican voters don't seem to care that their esteemed leaders are kid touchers, sexual harrassers, and/or assaulters of women. They don't seem to mind. And they don't mind discrediting those women who have the courage to speak up about the abuses they have endured if it keeps their boys in power. So you get one party making sacrifices and trying to play nice, and the other party carrying on its agenda like normal at the other party's expense. Related analysis:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ality.html

OK, so if I were Al Franken, this would be my strategy for tomorrow: FIrst, I would acknowledge that sexual harrassment and sexual assault are a systematic problem in the halls of Congress and the White House, as it is everywhere in the US. I would resolve to do everything in my power as a U.S. Senator to put an end to it. I would take responsibility for my own actions and the harm I've caused, and to set my own conduct right moving forward, and I would exhort every other denizen of Capitol Hill to do the same.

Second, I would offer to resign on the condition that the serial creep occupying the White House, Donald Trump, resign as well and for the same reasons. If Trump resigns at 5pm on Friday, I will resign at 5:01pm. In other words, I would make it a challenge, and call out the partisan hypocrisy on both sides--the strategic and tactical fecklessness that is a perennial problem for the Democrats, and the moral bankruptcy of the current GOP.

This would be a lot more entertaining than the ineffectual kabuki of contrition that we are likely to see instead.



*Objection--you forgot Bob Packwood, DGA. Well, everyone forgets Bob Packwood. He was my senator for a while. Even those Oregonians who voted for him usually hated him and there weren't enough consistent Republican voters to keep his seat safe. What a forgettable fellow.

User avatar
Lindama
Posts: 676
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:26 pm
Location: Forestville, CA usa

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Lindama » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:12 am

whoa, if we're not careful most in house and senate may have to resign. Let's not forget, Presidents are not subject to resignation.

So, if Al Franken were you.... does he have the guts to do what you would do if you were him? I don't know much about him. makes good sense, but can he? My only hope is that he's from Minnesota and they are a hardy bunch.

Double standsard abound. I started thinking about how this is common behind the scenes. I've seen it in healing circle in Utah where the abuse is familial thru generations. Apparently, god doesn't object.... I can't say why.
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho

diamind
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:19 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by diamind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 am

Theres two types of people in the world, perverts and perverts that get caught out. Sorry it's just a condition of being human. Everyone has there little secrets and if you don't I would say your a liar.

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 7007
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Ayu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:30 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 am
Theres two types of people in the world, perverts and perverts that get caught out. Sorry it's just a condition of being human. Everyone has there little secrets and if you don't I would say your a liar.
I think, I like better the "perverts that don't get caught", because most probably they have less or no victims. If people keep their darkness inside and deal with it themselves, it's better than acting everything out.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 2156
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Minobu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:28 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 am
Theres two types of people in the world, perverts and perverts that get caught out. Sorry it's just a condition of being human. Everyone has there little secrets and if you don't I would say your a liar.
if you are talking about sexual abuse and harassment as a precursor to being human...nope...

i abhor this sort a thing...never have done one teeny tiny tid bit of sexual harassment...why..cause i have a life filled with women ...been married twice...lived with more women than i can recall...if thats possible...lol...had a gazillion one night flings and short romances...why..cause i'm the sort of guy that for real treats women without a hint of being anything but an equal or a better as a human being...and not as objects of some unfulfilled desire...

i never actually tried to have sex with anyone, except myself...lol..no seriously...i never needed to have sex and so my time spent with women has always been one of a shared intellectual moment..most of the women i have had a longer relationship with are smarter than me. and thats the real enjoyment for me...

so anyway dude i do not know what sort of lense you are looking through or if i should report you to the cops....but no!!! not all men have dirty little secrets.

User avatar
Minobu
Posts: 2156
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Minobu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:30 pm

Ayu wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:30 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 am
Theres two types of people in the world, perverts and perverts that get caught out. Sorry it's just a condition of being human. Everyone has there little secrets and if you don't I would say your a liar.
I think, I like better the "perverts that don't get caught", because most probably they have less or no victims. If people keep their darkness inside and deal with it themselves, it's better than acting everything out.
i think you missed the poster's point...and i suspect you are not one of those guys with dirty little secrets either.

diamind
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:19 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by diamind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:18 pm

Minobu wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:30 pm
Ayu wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:30 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:25 am
Theres two types of people in the world, perverts and perverts that get caught out. Sorry it's just a condition of being human. Everyone has there little secrets and if you don't I would say your a liar.
I think, I like better the "perverts that don't get caught", because most probably they have less or no victims. If people keep their darkness inside and deal with it themselves, it's better than acting everything out.
i think you missed the poster's point...and i suspect you are not one of those guys with dirty little secrets either.
I have no secrets pm me

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:14 pm

No idea what to make of all this. Watching MeToo like its a slo-mo train wreck in progress. The reckoning is completely understandable. Its consequences are hard to stomach. I realize the response to that is that sexual harassment is hard to stomach, and the consequences are deserved.

I don't want to minimize what Franken did. It was stupid - the kind of thing a 13 year old thinks is funny. From a man, its creepy. That said, he's no Louis CK or Pres. Chump. That is cutting out the lining of your pants pocket creepy, the difference being, they exercised such power imbalance that they could act it out more and get away with it.

Losing a guy like Franken in the senate will hurt. Who will replace him? Likely a career politician who's "next" in the Minnesota Democratic hierarchy.

MeToo is a conflagration and the fallout from this is going to be deep and its going to go too far. The pent up energy is explosive.

Sex Ed for kids is going to end up with badly drafted Antioch College style behavior codes and we're going to end up even more uptight about sex.

Probably not the time for this kind of hand-wringing on my part, but then, when will it be appropriate the way this momentum is rolling.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
PuerAzaelis
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:37 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:26 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:14 pm
... even more uptight about sex.
Um ... you want to live in a country that is more sexualized than the US?

I'm not young and sexy any more. Unfortunately this means I stand no chance of being famous for being famous.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

User avatar
justsit
Posts: 945
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by justsit » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:26 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:14 pm
... even more uptight about sex.
Um ... you want to live in a country that is more sexualized than the US?
That's the problem, US is "Sexualized" but not "sexually mature." Two different things.

Puritan background apparently precludes a mature attitude towards sex here, leading to perpetual adolescent behaviors. We give lip service to "Christian" values, all the while devouring more porn than ever. It's a powder keg, and frequently it, ahem, blows.

Europe doesn't seem to have this problem.

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 pm

justsit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 pm
PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:26 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:14 pm
... even more uptight about sex.
Um ... you want to live in a country that is more sexualized than the US?
That's the problem, US is "Sexualized" but not "sexually mature." Two different things.

Puritan background apparently precludes a mature attitude towards sex here, leading to perpetual adolescent behaviors. We give lip service to "Christian" values, all the while devouring more porn than ever. It's a powder keg, and frequently it, ahem, blows.

Europe doesn't seem to have this problem.
I was just about to post something similar.

Sexuality in the US is grotesque because we've got such distorted attitudes about it.

Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
Ayu
Former staff member
Posts: 7007
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Ayu » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:50 pm

justsit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 pm
...

Europe doesn't seem to have this problem.
Maybe the puritan backround isn't that strong in Europe but it exists. And for sure we have sexual harrassment in all those forms. In my view, the me-too-campaign is a sign of progress in the USA while in Europe (most parts) we're still waiting for something like that.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9411
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by DGA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Here is a summary of the accusations of sexual harassment and sexual assault made against the current President of the United States, Cheeto Mussolini:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... c919f7491d

These accusations are at least as credible, if not more credible, than those made against Al Franken. Americans should demand Trump's resignation.

Franken blew it today, by the way.

Ricky
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Ricky » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 pm
justsit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 pm
PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:26 pm

Um ... you want to live in a country that is more sexualized than the US?
That's the problem, US is "Sexualized" but not "sexually mature." Two different things.

Puritan background apparently precludes a mature attitude towards sex here, leading to perpetual adolescent behaviors. We give lip service to "Christian" values, all the while devouring more porn than ever. It's a powder keg, and frequently it, ahem, blows.

Europe doesn't seem to have this problem.
I was just about to post something similar.

Sexuality in the US is grotesque because we've got such distorted attitudes about it.

Nobody wants to blame the sexual revolution of the 60s for this grotesqueness?

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 pm

Ayu wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:50 pm
justsit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 pm
...

Europe doesn't seem to have this problem.
Maybe the puritan backround isn't that strong in Europe but it exists. And for sure we have sexual harrassment in all those forms. In my view, the me-too-campaign is a sign of progress in the USA while in Europe (most parts) we're still waiting for something like that.
I don't think there is a society without sexual harassment. There probably are degrees with some better, if only marginally, than others, and some profoundly worse. The reckoning needs to happen everywhere.

That said, Ayu, you have a point - at least we have the environment that MeToo can happen. A lot of places it still can't happen or won't happen any time soon.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28488
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:03 pm

DGA wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Franken blew it today, by the way.
He had no choice. His statement was correct:
I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of the sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.
The GOP has basically decided they don't care how awful a person one might be, they just care that one says and votes the way they want one to say and vote. As long as one goes along with their program, one can be an accused rapist (Trump) or pedophile (Moore) and still get elected. The GOP has abandoned anything like a moral standing.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28488
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 pm

I don't think there is a society without sexual harassment.
Yes, because patriarchy is embedded in every society in the world. The basis of patriarchy is the exploitation of women, economically, politically, and sexually.
Last edited by Malcolm on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm

DGA wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 pm
Franken blew it today, by the way.
With deep reservations and concerns, I agree.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:11 pm

Ricky wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 pm
Nobody wants to blame the sexual revolution of the 60s for this grotesqueness?
Do you?

The sexual revolution was a revolution against previous norms, many of which people would categorize as uptight and puritanical. The present uptight attitudes for sure relate to the sexual revolution, but after that you had AIDS and that screwed up my generation (X) because now sex could kill you, which dovetailed nicely with the "Just say no"/Abstinence reactionary moralism of the 80s. I don't know what's going on now with all the social media hook up apps against sociological research that suggests kids these days are NOT having sex as much as we used to. Maybe its the prevalence of internet porn?

:shrug:
'
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

User avatar
Queequeg
Global Moderator
Posts: 6356
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: sexual harrassment & sexual assault in the US

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:14 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:04 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 pm

I don't think there is a society without sexual harassment.
Yes, because patriarchy is embedded in every society in the world. The basis of patriarchy is the exploitation of women, economically, politically, and sexually.
True. True. True.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

Post Reply

Return to “News & Current Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: narhwal90 and 34 guests