Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

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Norwegian
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Norwegian »

pael wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm How about those who skip the Theravada path and go straight to the Mahayana?
You do not have to start with Theravada first, then move on to Mahayana. That's a misconception.
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practitioner
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by practitioner »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 pm
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.

He says he sees these people in Taiwan, why do you think he is talking about Westerners?
One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva
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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by PuerAzaelis »

Norwegian wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:03 pm
pael wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm How about those who skip the Theravada path and go straight to the Mahayana?
You do not have to start with Theravada first, then move on to Mahayana. That's a misconception.
Unless you're a practitioner of initial scope. Like me.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
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Josef
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Josef »

He cant seem to resist an opportunity to belittle the people who pay for his privileged lifestyle.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
PeterC
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by PeterC »

It takes great skill to benefit others by being provocative without also being a jerk. If he continues on this path, I’m confident that DJKr will master it in about thirty years or so
Varis
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Varis »

Astus wrote: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:35 am What the above seems to say is that when Vajrayana is used for worldly purposes, it is nothing but a system of magic techniques, whereas with the motivation of enlightenment it is a means of the bodhisattva path. However, I think most Westerners don't believe in magic anyway, so the mistakes about Vajrayana are different.
Well I think DKR should take this up with the past masters of Vajrayana, not modern students.

A lot of past masters of Vajrayana, both Indian and Tibetan, have written a ton of manuals and instructions on how to attain personal gain with tantric practices.
The quest for siddhis is what largely differentiates non-tantric yogic practices from tantric ones.

I should throw in the caveat that I am not even a beginner on this path, I'm just looking at this from an academic perspective, so don't take me seriously.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
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Harimoo
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Harimoo »

Is DKR a troll ?
TsultimNamdak
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by TsultimNamdak »

At least DKR doesn't in this instance complain about them being New York Times-reading liberals.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by MiphamFan »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 pm
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.
Well, not that I disagree, but he was talking about going to Taiwan and seeing such things.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by diamind »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm
smcj wrote:
What's nice about it?
His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm »

MiphamFan wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:22 pm
Malcolm wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 pm
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.
Well, not that I disagree, but he was talking about going to Taiwan and seeing such things.
Just making a point.
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Josef
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Josef »

diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm
smcj wrote: His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
You’re kidding I hope.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm »

diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm
smcj wrote: His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by diamind »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm

I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:



These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
That's the view. Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.
diamind
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by diamind »

Josef wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm

I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:



These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
You’re kidding I hope.
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm »

diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm

He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
That's the view. Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.

No, that is not the view. That just some cultist bullshit. Instead, authentic sources like the Padmini commentary on the Hevajra Tantra composed in the mid-10th century state:

"Because of the power of the Kaliyuga, gurus have mixed qualities and faults,
there are none at all without misdeeds;
disciples should rely on those
whose qualities predominate, and who have been thoroughly investigated."
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Ricky »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:04 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm

Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
That's the view. Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.

No, that is not the view. That just some cultist bullshit. Instead, authentic sources like the Padmini commentary on the Hevajra Tantra composed in the mid-10th century state:

"Because of the power of the Kaliyuga, gurus have mixed qualities and faults,
there are none at all without misdeeds;
disciples should rely on those
whose qualities predominate, and who have been thoroughly investigated."
Nice quote. I always had the idea that gurus in Vajrayana have to be seen as infallible Buddhas in order for the practices to work.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm »

diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm
Josef wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm

He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
You’re kidding I hope.
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
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ThreeVows
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by ThreeVows »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm
Josef wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm
You’re kidding I hope.
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
Man, it seems to me that this type of thing should be more widely known.
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm »

Seeker12 wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm
diamind wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm

No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
Man, it seems to me that this type of thing should be more widely known.
There is a huge tendency in Vajrayāna to encourage sycophancy and dependence amongst disciples. Many people do not understand that there are limits to the guru's authority. For example, Sapan also states with great clarity:

If he does not teach according to the words of the Buddha,
even if he is one’s guru, one should remain indifferent.


This is not to say that we can get anywhere on our own in the Buddhist path, The Tattvāvatāra states:

The all-knowing one praises reliance on a guru,
not the independence of a disciple.
A blind person is not independent,
unable to climb a mountain.


Nevertheless, we must temper our understaing of the need to rely on a qualified master with common sense, so we do not wind up creating Buddhist cults which merely keep people imprisoned cages that seem like Dharma but are actually just clever prisons.
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