Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Proof that Star Wars is real life.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
My theory (spoiler alert): Snoke is Jar Jar Binks.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Great quote but it's missing something don't you think?Ricky wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 pmNice quote. I always had the idea that gurus in Vajrayana have to be seen as infallible Buddhas in order for the practices to work.Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:04 pm
No, that is not the view. That just some cultist bullshit. Instead, authentic sources like the Padmini commentary on the Hevajra Tantra composed in the mid-10th century state:
"Because of the power of the Kaliyuga, gurus have mixed qualities and faults,
there are none at all without misdeeds;
disciples should rely on those
whose qualities predominate, and who have been thoroughly investigated."
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
So some behaviour of the guru is unacceptable, while some is acceptable? But wouldn't that contradict the foundation of Buddha Dharma?Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:27 pmThere is a huge tendency in Vajrayāna to encourage sycophancy and dependence amongst disciples. Many people do not understand that there are limits to the guru's authority. For example, Sapan also states with great clarity:Seeker12 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pmMan, it seems to me that this type of thing should be more widely known.Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm
Sakya Pandita states:
"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.
In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
If he does not teach according to the words of the Buddha,
even if he is one’s guru, one should remain indifferent.
This is not to say that we can get anywhere on our own in the Buddhist path, The Tattvāvatāra states:
The all-knowing one praises reliance on a guru,
not the independence of a disciple.
A blind person is not independent,
unable to climb a mountain.
Nevertheless, we must temper our understaing of the need to rely on a qualified master with common sense, so we do not wind up creating Buddhist cults which merely keep people imprisoned cages that seem like Dharma but are actually just clever prisons.
Vajrayana is extremely dangerous in that regard.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Sonam Wangchug wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:21 amI loved when he handed Khenpo tsultrim lodro rinpoche a light saber when they were together and said "May the force be with you"
OK, I did a little poking around and I found the video:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
"I find your lack of faith (in the guru and triple gem) disturbing."dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:13 amSonam Wangchug wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:21 amI loved when he handed Khenpo tsultrim lodro rinpoche a light saber when they were together and said "May the force be with you"
OK, I did a little poking around and I found the video:
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Trouble is people don't have brains, therefore by default vajrayana is dangerous.Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:19 pmdiamind wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:24 amSo some behaviour of the guru is unacceptable, while some is acceptable? But wouldn't that contradict the foundation of Buddha Dharma?Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:27 pm
There is a huge tendency in Vajrayāna to encourage sycophancy and dependence amongst disciples. Many people do not understand that there are limits to the guru's authority. For example, Sapan also states with great clarity:
If he does not teach according to the words of the Buddha,
even if he is one’s guru, one should remain indifferent.
This is not to say that we can get anywhere on our own in the Buddhist path, The Tattvāvatāra states:
The all-knowing one praises reliance on a guru,
not the independence of a disciple.
A blind person is not independent,
unable to climb a mountain.
Nevertheless, we must temper our understaing of the need to rely on a qualified master with common sense, so we do not wind up creating Buddhist cults which merely keep people imprisoned cages that seem like Dharma but are actually just clever prisons.
Vajrayana is extremely dangerous in that regard.
It does not contradict anything. And Vajrayāna is only dangerous for blind fools who leave their brains along with their shoes at the temple door.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Well, there is that whole snake in a bamboo tube trope, after all.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
diamind wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:44 pmTrouble is people don't have brains, therefore by default vajrayana is dangerous.
Pretty grim view.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
You're welcome ...
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Vajrayana was revealed for brahmanas, vaisnavas, saivas and other barbarians. They do not have a brain by default.
It is good that that person has a buddhist malas on the neck. There could be a necklace of ears actually.
It is good that that person has a buddhist malas on the neck. There could be a necklace of ears actually.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Chortle
I had a dream the other night, I was making the sound of a pig and meditating on it.
... so perhaps there is hope for me yet.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind
For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pmSakya Pandita states:
"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.
In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
Malcolm - where can we find this passage - I was looking for it in clear differentiation of the three vows but couldn't locate it, suspect I'm looking in the wrong text. Thanks
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Devotion is the key to vajrayana tho. If your guru is qualified then I think it's safe no matter how fanatical you get.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 pm
I feel fortunate to have had multiple teachers (yep, within the Tibetan traditions) that explicitly and strongly encouraged people to be responsible for their own practice, while emphasizing the deep relationship with one's mentors and/or Gurus.
In fact don't think I could "go back" to a naive idea of following a Guru who did not grant me the right to my own autonomy spiritually, to me it is a part of the path, and it is the slavish adherence to replacement daddy-figure that should be the aberration, rather than the other way around. Not all devotion is healthy, and some forms are counter to the path.
Do you mean to say when the guru is unqualified? things become unhealthy?
It's said over and over again in the scriptures how beneficial adherence to the guru is, and yes like a father figure. I don't see the disadvantage or a problem with this.
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
PuerAzaelis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:55 amChortle
I had a dream the other night, I was making the sound of a pig and meditating on it.
... so perhaps there is hope for me yet.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
My father encouraged me to be responsible for myself and learn to be independent of him...my teachers have done the same. From my point of view Gurus who foster dependence in disciples are questionable, period. That said, I realize I don't have the capacity to judge, I simply would never serve such a teacher, because I would never be able to develop devotion to someone who appeared outwardly so needy in the first place.diamind wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:22 pmDevotion is the key to vajrayana tho. If your guru is qualified then I think it's safe no matter how fanatical you get.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 pm
I feel fortunate to have had multiple teachers (yep, within the Tibetan traditions) that explicitly and strongly encouraged people to be responsible for their own practice, while emphasizing the deep relationship with one's mentors and/or Gurus.
In fact don't think I could "go back" to a naive idea of following a Guru who did not grant me the right to my own autonomy spiritually, to me it is a part of the path, and it is the slavish adherence to replacement daddy-figure that should be the aberration, rather than the other way around. Not all devotion is healthy, and some forms are counter to the path.
Do you mean to say when the guru is unqualified? things become unhealthy?
It's said over and over again in the scriptures how beneficial adherence to the guru is, and yes like a father figure. I don't see the disadvantage or a problem with this.
Neediness and dependency on either end of the relationship are not a prerequisite of devotion by any means.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
I think I understand what you are trying to say JD, but your comments remind me of something CTR wrote:
Being a sycophant is unhealthy, but on the other hand each of us needs to continually examine whether the autonomy we seek is actually driven by ego.
BTW mods, this conversation seems to have strayed quite a bit from the OP. Perhaps most of it ought to be a separate thread.
(I'm sure Malcolm will have some issue or other with the language).At the vajrayana level, we begin with faith in the teachings and the teacher, because we have already experienced the truth and the work-ability of the teachings for ourselves. Then, with the discovery of vajra nature, faith begins to develop into devotion, which is mogii in Tibetan. Mo means "longing," and gU means "respect." We develop tremendous respect for the teacher and a longing for what he can impart because we see that he is the embodiment of vajra nature, the embodiment of wakeful mind. At this level, the teacher becomes the guru.
One's relationship with the vajra master involves surrendering one-self to the teacher as the final expression of egolessness. This allows the practitioner to develop fully the threefold vajra nature: vajra body, vajra speech, and vajra mind. The maturation of devotion into complete sur-rendering is called lote lingkyur in Tibetan. Lote means "trust," ling means "completely," and kyur means "abandoning" or "letting go." So lote ling-kyur means "to trust completely and let go"-to abandon one's ego completely. Without such surrender, there is no way to give up the last vestiges of ego; nor could the teacher introduce the yidam, the essence of egolessness. In fact. without such devotion to the teacher, one might attempt to use the vajrayana teachings to rebuild the fortress of ego.
Being a sycophant is unhealthy, but on the other hand each of us needs to continually examine whether the autonomy we seek is actually driven by ego.
BTW mods, this conversation seems to have strayed quite a bit from the OP. Perhaps most of it ought to be a separate thread.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
~Chatral Rinpoche
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
How can one be devoted to the man who speaks about "ego" and other strange things? There is no "ego" in buddhism. It is fiction. One can't rebuilt the "fortress of ego". For ex one can't rearrange horns of the rabbit. Vaisnavas are egoless in that respect because they are devoted. Nice. And that man without any mention of buddadharma speaks about devotion...poor TB. Half of it sinks completedly in proliferation.
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
CTR is supreme!Punya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:57 pm I think I understand what you are trying to say JD, but your comments remind me of something CTR wrote:
(I'm sure Malcolm will have some issue or other with the language).At the vajrayana level, we begin with faith in the teachings and the teacher, because we have already experienced the truth and the work-ability of the teachings for ourselves. Then, with the discovery of vajra nature, faith begins to develop into devotion, which is mogii in Tibetan. Mo means "longing," and gU means "respect." We develop tremendous respect for the teacher and a longing for what he can impart because we see that he is the embodiment of vajra nature, the embodiment of wakeful mind. At this level, the teacher becomes the guru.
One's relationship with the vajra master involves surrendering one-self to the teacher as the final expression of egolessness. This allows the practitioner to develop fully the threefold vajra nature: vajra body, vajra speech, and vajra mind. The maturation of devotion into complete sur-rendering is called lote lingkyur in Tibetan. Lote means "trust," ling means "completely," and kyur means "abandoning" or "letting go." So lote ling-kyur means "to trust completely and let go"-to abandon one's ego completely. Without such surrender, there is no way to give up the last vestiges of ego; nor could the teacher introduce the yidam, the essence of egolessness. In fact. without such devotion to the teacher, one might attempt to use the vajrayana teachings to rebuild the fortress of ego.
Being a sycophant is unhealthy, but on the other hand each of us needs to continually examine whether the autonomy we seek is actually driven by ego.
BTW mods, this conversation seems to have strayed quite a bit from the OP. Perhaps most of it ought to be a separate thread.
"An example of Padmasambhva’s acting as a father figure for Tibet was the warning that he gave King Trisong Detsen. The New Years celebration was about to be held, which traditionally included horse racing and archery, among the other events. Padmasambhava said, “there shouldn’t be horse racing or archery this time.” But no one listened and the King was killed by the arrow of an unknown assassin at the of the horse racing and archery" CTR
So much for autonomy.