Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

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Queequeg
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:13 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:16 pm

ob_5db2a2_elizondo.jpg
Omb! Sometimes I love the internet!
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:28 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
My father (whose hair is quite boring) worked for the FBI, and the CIA for years in counter-intelligence. He was involved in a large amount of investigations. If you don't believe me, I can send you a link to the NYT article about him when he allegedly committed espionage (which he didn't do).

Anyways, I've talked to him about UFO's, he's a believer.

I guess some of you think the moon landings were all fake, too, I suppose. :shrug:




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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Simon E. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:37 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
My father (whose hair is quite boring) worked for the FBI, and the CIA for years in counter-intelligence. He was involved in a large amount of investigations. If you don't believe me, I can send you a link to the NYT article about him when he allegedly committed espionage (which he didn't do).

Anyways, I've talked to him about UFO's, he's a believer.

I guess some of you think the moon landings were all fake, too, I suppose. :shrug:
I don't believe the moon landings were faked.
I have no view either way whether UFO's are real or not. And I don't particularly care.

I am however conscious of the fact that this discussion is happening in the Current Affairs subsection of a forum dedicated to Buddhadharma. And that the aim of Buddhadharma is to end suffering.
I am open to any suggestion as to the way that the UFO's might aid in that purpose.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Vasana » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:40 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:57 pm
Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:59 am
In other words, even our conventional certainties are embedded in a much larger web of fundamental uncertainties. I don't think that needs to invalidate the value of conventional certainties, whether inferential or directly cognizable just as the perception of smoke on a mountain can lead us to infer there is a fire.

To keep it practice focused then...How far does that agnosticism extend to the practice and fruition of dharma? Which parts of the dharma are beyond certainty for us? Can any of those parts be inferred as we practice? How does that effect our practice? You may say it doesn't effect practice but unless we have faith in, infer or glimpse at the fruition, there's no incentive to even be on the path unless you're practicing for conventional benefits in this life only.
Maybe someone could design a smiley for "You deluded wordling you, stop wasting time and get back to practice!!!"
:twothumbsup:
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:57 pm
Coming back to your questions. I think I've argued that not much may be needed as far as a belief system goes in the Secular Buddhism
thread. 'Maybe needed' because it varies from person to person. But one thing I've found very useful is an attitude of openness and inquiry.

_/|\_
Yeah I would imagine secular Buddhism doesn't require taking much on faith since they usually tend to not be concerned with anything beyond this life. The 'buddhism without beliefs' crew.

For everyone else, even in paths that emphasize direct cognition, there are still aspects of the path we can't really conclusively verify from the off-set.

As for Simon's above observation, maybe the thread should be moved to the lounge where people are free to speak about ufos and the English Premier league freely :cheers:
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Vasana » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:46 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:06 am
I once took an Astronomy class called "The Search for Extraterrestrial Life," which was all based on probability and statistics type of stuff. The class, which was led by a PhD astronomer at the University of Texas in Austin (which has a pretty good astronomy program) concluded that life was more likely than not, AND given our location in the universe, most of the life would probably be older and more advanced than us.
Only just saw this. It makes sense to me.
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:06 am
I also find Stephen Hawkings' warnings about evil aliens to be a bit absurd, btw.
Agreed. I suppose all of the blockbusters depicting the alien-apocalypse really left a mark on him.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:56 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:37 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
My father (whose hair is quite boring) worked for the FBI, and the CIA for years in counter-intelligence. He was involved in a large amount of investigations. If you don't believe me, I can send you a link to the NYT article about him when he allegedly committed espionage (which he didn't do).

Anyways, I've talked to him about UFO's, he's a believer.

I guess some of you think the moon landings were all fake, too, I suppose. :shrug:
I don't believe the moon landings were faked.
I have no view either way whether UFO's are real or not. And I don't particularly care.

I am however conscious of the fact that this discussion is happening in the Current Affairs subsection of a forum dedicated to Buddhadharma. And that the aim of Buddhadharma is to end suffering.
I am open to any suggestion as to the way that the UFO's might aid in that purpose.




:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. https://translate.google.com.br/

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Simon E. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:02 pm

Sorry Lucas I am not following your argument.
Are you suggesting that finding an answer to a question about whether NASA covered up evidence of pyramids on the moon in some way will aid in reducing Dukkha?
How does that work then?
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by TharpaChodron » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:03 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:11 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
NYT
That reminds me - this story broke in the NYT... Might be trolling the NYT, too. More ammo for charges of 'fake news'
Anyways, I've talked to him about UFO's, he's a believer.
What does that mean? I believe that there may be flying objects that are unidentified...

Image
The NYT wrote a fair article, telling both sides and well vetted.

I would think that it's common understanding that that by saying UFO's we're talking about more than just believing literally in unknown flying objects, such as lost weather balloons. A second hand account doesn't mean anything, but I enjoy asking him about conspiracies and what he thinks about things like that.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by TharpaChodron » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:05 pm

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:28 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
My father (whose hair is quite boring) worked for the FBI, and the CIA for years in counter-intelligence. He was involved in a large amount of investigations. If you don't believe me, I can send you a link to the NYT article about him when he allegedly committed espionage (which he didn't do).

Anyways, I've talked to him about UFO's, he's a believer.

I guess some of you think the moon landings were all fake, too, I suppose. :shrug:




:namaste:
That woman is crazy! :tongue: Seriously, though, I believe she is.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:08 pm

Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:46 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:06 am
I also find Stephen Hawkings' warnings about evil aliens to be a bit absurd, btw.
Agreed. I suppose all of the blockbusters depicting the alien-apocalypse really left a mark on him.
If life in the universe is common place... why wouldn't some advanced aliens give as little care about us as we give to an ant hill when constructing a highway? Because we're special? If history is any indication, each time we think we're the center of the universe, reality has a way of jarringly disabusing us of that conceit. I for one believe we should stop sending signals out into space immediately. That means not only the intentional SETI messages, but also TV and radio transmissions, cell phone transmissions, blue tooth, etc. We need to turn the dial back to 1850 or so. The only solace is that me and everyone I know will be dead by the time the aliens show up. Who knows, though, maybe I'll be incarnated as one them, gleefully shooting down our cities, and my distant descendants, with my laser cannons.

https://www.amazon.com/Hitchhikers-Guid ... 0345391802

or

https://www.amazon.com/Sirens-Titan-Kur ... 1501277294

I'm sorry, I got a little carried away.

Who knows, man? Who knows? :shrug:
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:13 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:02 pm
Sorry Lucas I am not following your argument.
Are you suggesting that finding an answer to a question about whether NASA covered up evidence of pyramids on the moon in some way will aid in reducing Dukkha?
How does that work then?
these official tests on UFOS ETs help people open their minds and see more clearly ... reality as it is.

in Buddhism it speaks that beings are infinite ... and the skeptics speak because we have never been visited.

knowing who beings are infinite they will better understand the Buddha's teachings and may even bring forth compassion to help beings.

:anjali:
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:20 pm

TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:05 pm
Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:28 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm
My father (whose hair is quite boring) worked for the FBI, and the CIA for years in counter-intelligence. He was involved in a large amount of investigations. If you don't believe me, I can send you a link to the NYT article about him when he allegedly committed espionage (which he didn't do).

Anyways, I've talked to him about UFO's, he's a believer.

I guess some of you think the moon landings were all fake, too, I suppose. :shrug:




:namaste:
That woman is crazy! :tongue: Seriously, though, I believe she is.

How many people do you want to call crazy?



The Disclosure Project is a nonprofit research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems. We have over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.

:namaste:
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Simon E. » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:23 pm

There are more non sequiturs there than one could swing a cat at.

But, clearly there are reasons for this discussion which lie beyond my ken. And no doubt serve a purpose.

I'll shut my face.

:coffee:
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Norwegian » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:23 pm

Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:46 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:06 am
I also find Stephen Hawkings' warnings about evil aliens to be a bit absurd, btw.
Agreed. I suppose all of the blockbusters depicting the alien-apocalypse really left a mark on him.
But are you really so sure of that? Think about it. There are in general two classes of beings: 1) Sentient beings, 2) Buddhas.

As for sentient beings, they are deluded, and are swimming in afflictions. Animals in general are stupid and afraid. There's always another bigger animal waiting to kill the smaller animal. At least in the wild. And if they're not in the wild, they're domesticated by the smartest animal around, the human. Who also kills animals. And for that matter, themselves, other humans. Yeah we humans do a lot of good, but we also do a whole lot of bad.

If there's intelligent aliens out there, they are either sentient beings or Buddhas. According to the Dzogchen tantras, there are 13 world systems (planets?) in this universe where the Dzogchen teachings flourish. Does that mean all inhabitants on these planets are realized beings or practitioners?

And while 13 world systems may sound amazing - and of course it is amazing that the Dharma flourishes elsewhere too - when you consider how many planets there are in a galaxy on average, and then consider how many galaxies there are in the visible universe, 13 is not a large number at all.

So, if there's intelligent alien life out there, chances are it's sentient. And if it has the technology needed to travel to our solar system, then it's much more technologically advanced than us. If they then are just as afflicted as we are, or more, that's bad news.

Think about it: Why should aliens somehow be super friendly and intelligent? Why can't there be a massive army of alien spaceships out there led by a galactic parallel to the German SS? "We need Lebensraum. We must cleanse planet XzblorQ of its inferior life forms."

Sounds silly? Maybe. But sentient beings are sentient beings. Just because you have technology does not mean you're somehow more peaceful. We better hope that whatever intelligent lifeforms we come across in the future if we do so, are peaceful. But if they are peaceful and technologically inferior, it is very likely that it is we who will end up exploiting them.

Motova
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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Motova » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:25 pm

One of Canada's previous Defense Ministers believes the USA already has alien technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by Dan74 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:26 pm

Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:40 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:57 pm
Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:59 am
In other words, even our conventional certainties are embedded in a much larger web of fundamental uncertainties. I don't think that needs to invalidate the value of conventional certainties, whether inferential or directly cognizable just as the perception of smoke on a mountain can lead us to infer there is a fire.

To keep it practice focused then...How far does that agnosticism extend to the practice and fruition of dharma? Which parts of the dharma are beyond certainty for us? Can any of those parts be inferred as we practice? How does that effect our practice? You may say it doesn't effect practice but unless we have faith in, infer or glimpse at the fruition, there's no incentive to even be on the path unless you're practicing for conventional benefits in this life only.
Maybe someone could design a smiley for "You deluded wordling you, stop wasting time and get back to practice!!!"
:twothumbsup:
Dan74 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:57 pm
Coming back to your questions. I think I've argued that not much may be needed as far as a belief system goes in the Secular Buddhism
thread. 'Maybe needed' because it varies from person to person. But one thing I've found very useful is an attitude of openness and inquiry.

_/|\_
Yeah I would imagine secular Buddhism doesn't require taking much on faith since they usually tend to not be concerned with anything beyond this life. The 'buddhism without beliefs' crew.

For everyone else, even in paths that emphasize direct cognition, there are still aspects of the path we can't really conclusively verify from the off-set.

As for Simon's above observation, maybe the thread should be moved to the lounge where people are free to speak about ufos and the English Premier league freely :cheers:
I don't identify with Secular Buddhism at all, but I guess that I am less judgmental of them than most here. Certainly starting off as SB, one does not need to stay SB, and in any case progress in virtue and wisdom. And starting off swallowing the Dharma Dogma line, hook and sinker, one can stay exactly as mired in delusion for years. It's more the question of fit, skill in means, than the perfect doctrine, IMO. That's why teachers are important, not arguments about what is needed, what is Right View, etc. Horses for courses, that's all.
Last edited by Dan74 on Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:28 pm

Lmao *Bold part*
Queequeg wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:08 pm
Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:46 pm
TharpaChodron wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:06 am
I also find Stephen Hawkings' warnings about evil aliens to be a bit absurd, btw.
Agreed. I suppose all of the blockbusters depicting the alien-apocalypse really left a mark on him.
If life in the universe is common place... why wouldn't some advanced aliens give as little care about us as we give to an ant hill when constructing a highway? Because we're special? If history is any indication, each time we think we're the center of the universe, reality has a way of jarringly disabusing us of that conceit. I for one believe we should stop sending signals out into space immediately. That means not only the intentional SETI messages, but also TV and radio transmissions, cell phone transmissions, blue tooth, etc. We need to turn the dial back to 1850 or so. The only solace is that me and everyone I know will be dead by the time the aliens show up. Who knows, though, maybe I'll be incarnated as one them, gleefully shooting down our cities, and my distant descendants, with my laser cannons.

https://www.amazon.com/Hitchhikers-Guid ... 0345391802

or

https://www.amazon.com/Sirens-Titan-Kur ... 1501277294

I'm sorry, I got a little carried away.

Who knows, man? Who knows? :shrug:

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:38 pm

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:20 pm
How many people do you want to call crazy?
All of them.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by CedarTree » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:40 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:38 pm
Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:20 pm
How many people do you want to call crazy?
All of them.
I second this. :popcorn:

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Re: Former Pentagon UFO official: 'We may not be alone'

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:52 pm

Vasana wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:40 pm
As for Simon's above observation, maybe the thread should be moved to the lounge where people are free to speak about ufos and the English Premier league freely.

Vasana, are you suggesting that gushing over Pep Guardiola's genius in some way will aid in reducing Dukkha?
How does that work then?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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