pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Hello good people,
I hope this question isn't either too stupid, or inappropriate (if it is the latter, please let me know & I'll delete it).
We all get distracted in out lives and all have times that we get completely lost and/or emotionally hijacked.
It seems like it could be a good idea to practice guruyoga, get into a state of contemplation, and then intentionally think about the type of situation that would trigger me, with the goal of being more ready to integrate contemplation into those situations.
On the other hand it seems like that might not be a good idea, being focused on the future or past and being like a form of conditioning.
Any thoughts?
Any suggestions, other than keep practicing, for those difficult situations that get you before you even realize you got got?
Any suggestions or thoughts are much appreciated.
Thanks.
I hope this question isn't either too stupid, or inappropriate (if it is the latter, please let me know & I'll delete it).
We all get distracted in out lives and all have times that we get completely lost and/or emotionally hijacked.
It seems like it could be a good idea to practice guruyoga, get into a state of contemplation, and then intentionally think about the type of situation that would trigger me, with the goal of being more ready to integrate contemplation into those situations.
On the other hand it seems like that might not be a good idea, being focused on the future or past and being like a form of conditioning.
Any thoughts?
Any suggestions, other than keep practicing, for those difficult situations that get you before you even realize you got got?
Any suggestions or thoughts are much appreciated.
Thanks.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
It's not a stupid question and I'm glad you started the thread!
I'm in the process of setting up something very similar. I've written a list of all of the kinds of situations, moods, interactions,thought processes, sensations etc that I tend to find myself repeating in daily life but want to integrate more with the correct view, meditation & conduct.
Based on what I know I need to make a deliberate effort to recall and remind myself of, I've then written myself practice advice ranging from pithy reminders to much longer paragraphs that get to the core of any experience I'm likely to encounter again. Essentially it's like a kind of Lojong Mnemonic device.
Once my list is more or less complete, I plan to have a copy with very tiny print on my person nearly at all times so when I encounter any experience on that the list again, I can immediately recall any relevant slogan or personalized reminders related to that experience.
I'm in the process of setting up something very similar. I've written a list of all of the kinds of situations, moods, interactions,thought processes, sensations etc that I tend to find myself repeating in daily life but want to integrate more with the correct view, meditation & conduct.
Based on what I know I need to make a deliberate effort to recall and remind myself of, I've then written myself practice advice ranging from pithy reminders to much longer paragraphs that get to the core of any experience I'm likely to encounter again. Essentially it's like a kind of Lojong Mnemonic device.
Once my list is more or less complete, I plan to have a copy with very tiny print on my person nearly at all times so when I encounter any experience on that the list again, I can immediately recall any relevant slogan or personalized reminders related to that experience.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
We are creatures of habit. Knowing that we're very likely to encounter similar situations in the future and preparing mindful / dharmic responses to those situations isn't a bad form of conditioning. We still need to make use of deliberate mindfulness until it becomes effortless. Some people might not be suited to the mnemonic idea above but for others, it could help.On the other hand it seems like that might not be a good idea, being focused on the future or past and being like a form of conditioning.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
You may not be completely aware of the implications of the state of contemplation.climb-up wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:53 pmWe all get distracted in out lives and all have times that we get completely lost and/or emotionally hijacked.
It seems like it could be a good idea to practice guruyoga, get into a state of contemplation, and then intentionally think about the type of situation that would trigger me, with the goal of being more ready to integrate contemplation into those situations.
But beyond that, as a beginner who is able to enter the state of contemplation, you certainly would want to simply rest in a relaxed manner so that you sustain that equipoise for as long as possible. Intentionally engaging in conceptualization will cause you to lapse back into afflicted mind.
- Johnny Dangerous
- Global Moderator
- Posts: 17142
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
- Location: Olympia WA
- Contact:
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
I am not sure whether it counts as contemplation or not, but it seems to me that TWR teaches in this way sometimes. I suspect the question is whether you are intentionally ' making' something happen, or seeing nakedly what is there...if something is regularly hijacking you, you don't really need to bring it up in a contrived way, it's in the background, so to speak.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
The point of contemplation is to train the recollection of the state of knowledge. So the more distraction, the better is the result of the training.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Only if you're not distracted.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
The point is that is it all about the knowledge of the base, once we can recall it, we can use it for insight to dispell our mental obscuration. Simply remaining in it is just calmness and when the mind is calm, the mental obscuration does not arise for the insight to cut repeatedly until it is completely gone by the force of habit as well as by the power of realization itself. By the time we have pure thought and pure intention, that itself is the pure intelligence, we no longer need to worry about distraction because the root causes of that has been cut off by insight of the intelligence.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
I appreciate the comments, thank you all.
My problem isn't that I'm getting regularly hijacked, day-to-day things are going very well in that regard (especially when compared to my life-before-dzogchen :p ), it's more that there are certain situations that, when they do come up, are almost guaranteed to hijack me.
Specifically ones that get you before you realize it?
Other than "practice more," which is, of course, the main answer.
Even when I get hijacked in regular life, I am able to recollect earlier and deal with it better (at least better than in the past); and, when it does happen, I have plenty to meditate on/with.
I did actually have something like that in mind, I have done a few guided meditations recently with TWR and (it seems like, based on them) that he endorses this procedure.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:11 pm I am not sure whether it counts as contemplation or not, but it seems to me that TWR teaches in this way sometimes. I suspect the question is whether you are intentionally ' making' something happen, or seeing nakedly what is there...if something is regularly hijacking you, you don't really need to bring it up in a contrived way, it's in the background, so to speak.
My problem isn't that I'm getting regularly hijacked, day-to-day things are going very well in that regard (especially when compared to my life-before-dzogchen :p ), it's more that there are certain situations that, when they do come up, are almost guaranteed to hijack me.
That seems like a good idea!Vasana wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:09 pm Once my list is more or less complete, I plan to have a copy with very tiny print on my person nearly at all times so when I encounter any experience on that the list again, I can immediately recall any relevant slogan or personalized reminders related to that experience.
Do you have any thoughts in regards to particularly difficult situations?krodha wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:31 pm
You may not be completely aware of the implications of the state of contemplation.
But beyond that, as a beginner who is able to enter the state of contemplation, you certainly would want to simply rest in a relaxed manner so that you sustain that equipoise for as long as possible. Intentionally engaging in conceptualization will cause you to lapse back into afflicted mind.
Specifically ones that get you before you realize it?
Other than "practice more," which is, of course, the main answer.
I've been feeling that more.
Even when I get hijacked in regular life, I am able to recollect earlier and deal with it better (at least better than in the past); and, when it does happen, I have plenty to meditate on/with.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Dear Jyoti,
So is the knowledge base recollected by the pure intelligence through calm and insight? That way, I assume, the mental obscurations are cut at the root by pure thought and pure intention, dispelling force of habit?Jyoti wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:55 am The point is that is it all about the knowledge of the base, once we can recall it, we can use it for insight to dispell our mental obscuration. Simply remaining in it is just calmness and when the mind is calm, the mental obscuration does not arise for the insight to cut repeatedly until it is completely gone by the force of habit as well as by the power of realization itself. By the time we have pure thought and pure intention, that itself is the pure intelligence, we no longer need to worry about distraction because the root causes of that has been cut off by insight of the intelligence.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
The force of prajñā in instances of equipoise burns away mental obscuration, and said afflictions are not dispelled any other way.
Like a massive release of tension in one's continuum, and then in post-equipoise negative emotions are diminished, in some cases nearly altogether. Certainly altogether for those who have fully exhausted the afflictive obscuration.
The internal reference point of mind, or subject that seems to relate to objects as an entity is like a tightly bound knot that carries a great deal of tension and residual impressions in the form of negative emotions, habits and tendencies.
In instances of true contemplation when that reference point collapses and is realized to be false, that knot is undone for the duration of the period of contemplation and there is a massive release of built up tension.
This is why Norbu Rinpoche says even remaining in equipoise for the period of time it takes an ant to crawl up the length of one's nose purifies eons of karma.
Like a massive release of tension in one's continuum, and then in post-equipoise negative emotions are diminished, in some cases nearly altogether. Certainly altogether for those who have fully exhausted the afflictive obscuration.
The internal reference point of mind, or subject that seems to relate to objects as an entity is like a tightly bound knot that carries a great deal of tension and residual impressions in the form of negative emotions, habits and tendencies.
In instances of true contemplation when that reference point collapses and is realized to be false, that knot is undone for the duration of the period of contemplation and there is a massive release of built up tension.
This is why Norbu Rinpoche says even remaining in equipoise for the period of time it takes an ant to crawl up the length of one's nose purifies eons of karma.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
I don't disagree with anything you said, and it reflects my understanding, I'm not sure how it relates to my question specifically though.krodha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:08 pm The force of prajñā in instances of equipoise burns away mental obscuration, and said afflictions are not dispelled any other way.
Like a massive release of tension in one's continuum, and then in post-equipoise negative emotions are diminished, in some cases nearly altogether. Certainly altogether for those who have fully exhausted the afflictive obscuration.
The internal reference point of mind, or subject that seems to relate to objects as an entity is like a tightly bound knot that carries a great deal of tension and residual impressions in the form of negative emotions, habits and tendencies.
In instances of true contemplation when that reference point collapses and is realized to be false, that knot is undone for the duration of the period of contemplation and there is a massive release of built up tension.
This is why Norbu Rinpoche says even remaining in equipoise for the period of time it takes an ant to crawl up the length of one's nose purifies eons of karma.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
The above wasn't directed at you necessarily.climb-up wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:24 pmI don't disagree with anything you said, and it reflects my understanding, I'm not sure how it relates to my question specifically though.krodha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:08 pm The force of prajñā in instances of equipoise burns away mental obscuration, and said afflictions are not dispelled any other way.
Like a massive release of tension in one's continuum, and then in post-equipoise negative emotions are diminished, in some cases nearly altogether. Certainly altogether for those who have fully exhausted the afflictive obscuration.
The internal reference point of mind, or subject that seems to relate to objects as an entity is like a tightly bound knot that carries a great deal of tension and residual impressions in the form of negative emotions, habits and tendencies.
In instances of true contemplation when that reference point collapses and is realized to be false, that knot is undone for the duration of the period of contemplation and there is a massive release of built up tension.
This is why Norbu Rinpoche says even remaining in equipoise for the period of time it takes an ant to crawl up the length of one's nose purifies eons of karma.
But this is directed at you, so take it or leave it: my advice for dealing with difficult situations in everyday life would be to remain mindful of impermanence and the apparent peaks and valleys of experience. You will have difficult times, and you will have good times.
Fully expect difficult times and accept that it is part of life. Loss and difficulty is the other side of gain and easy times, so expect the ebb and flow. Be prepared and expect it, when it arises do your best to handle it effectively. What arises will fall, what comes together will fall apart, what is born will die... suffering comes from resistance and an inability to expand one's scope to see opportunity when doors close. Try to be an optimist.
Overall view this life like a dream. None of it is actually real. It is a magnificent display of color, sound and sensation. Investigate your mind, it is the root of it all.
As for contemplation, it is like a glass of water, there is no benefit for your thirst unless you drink it. And after you have you will see what color, sound and sensation really are, and how serious difficult situations really are in the grand scope.
Life is a teacher. Learn from your experiences, be thankful for this life. Forge mental fortitude in the flames of gain and loss. A small boat is tossed around by the waves, you can't fix the waves, but you can improve the size and strength of the boat.
Be well.
</life_advice>
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Calm and insight is the practice to either get you to realise the state of Rigpa, or to enable you to gain confidence in the state of Rigpa. Once you are confident in the state of Rigpa, then you can train in the recollection of the state of Rigpa with the intellect/jnana. Once becoming familiar with the recollection, you can integrate the various conceptual/emotional process with this knowledge-recollection, gradually the defilement of the mind itself will be transformed as the power of intelligence, and various distraction will be under the control of the intellgence/jnana.marting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:16 pm Dear Jyoti,
So is the knowledge base recollected by the pure intelligence through calm and insight? That way, I assume, the mental obscurations are cut at the root by pure thought and pure intention, dispelling force of habit?Jyoti wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:55 am The point is that is it all about the knowledge of the base, once we can recall it, we can use it for insight to dispell our mental obscuration. Simply remaining in it is just calmness and when the mind is calm, the mental obscuration does not arise for the insight to cut repeatedly until it is completely gone by the force of habit as well as by the power of realization itself. By the time we have pure thought and pure intention, that itself is the pure intelligence, we no longer need to worry about distraction because the root causes of that has been cut off by insight of the intelligence.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Hi Jyoti,
Ah, OK! Thanks! So the Jnana recollects the knowledge base of Rigpa, which underlining the recollection is calm and insight that leads to confidence of the state of Rigpa that one has realized, moving the conceptual/emotional process into that state of base knowledge and therefore displacing the defilement of the mind into the power of intelligence. This displacement is transformed into the the power of intelligence, though gradually. Am I on the right track?Jyoti wrote:Calm and insight is the practice to either get you to realise the state of Rigpa, or to enable you to gain confidence in the state of Rigpa. Once you are confident in the state of Rigpa, then you can train in the recollection of the state of Rigpa with the intellect/jnana. Once becoming familiar with the recollection, you can integrate the various conceptual/emotional process with this knowledge-recollection, gradually the defilement of the mind itself will be transformed as the power of intelligence, and various distraction will be under the control of the intellgence/jnana.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Mental obscuration is subsided temporary during mental equipoise, as such the state of Rigpa has no function to anything when the mental faculty is in equipoise, except for serving the equipoise itself (for nothing) due to concentration itself. Furthermore, mental obscuration is not mean to be force away by any conditioned state of meditation, to rid of mental obscuration, the only way is to intellectually recognise the problem with the insight that is gained from the knowledge of the base.krodha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:08 pm The force of prajñā in instances of equipoise burns away mental obscuration, and said afflictions are not dispelled any other way.
Like a massive release of tension in one's continuum, and then in post-equipoise negative emotions are diminished, in some cases nearly altogether. Certainly altogether for those who have fully exhausted the afflictive obscuration.
The internal reference point of mind, or subject that seems to relate to objects as an entity is like a tightly bound knot that carries a great deal of tension and residual impressions in the form of negative emotions, habits and tendencies.
In instances of true contemplation when that reference point collapses and is realized to be false, that knot is undone for the duration of the period of contemplation and there is a massive release of built up tension.
This is why Norbu Rinpoche says even remaining in equipoise for the period of time it takes an ant to crawl up the length of one's nose purifies eons of karma.
What one experiences in the instance of equipoise is different from what one experiences in normal, distracted mental condition, and where various emotional aversions or attractions are present. If these experiences are not integrated with the intelligence/jnana, they will continue to be the basis of distraction and defilements, when one is distracted from the instant of equipoise.
The merit of equipose is great, but much greater would be the merit of awakening to the bodhi. One doesn't awaken to the bodhi by subdueing the intellect/jnana in equipoise.
Also a common sign of new student here, did they truly received the knowledge/Rigpa? It required an intellect/jnana to hold the knowledge, it is not about some practice to get into a certain state.
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
When you expound these non-definitive teaching on a dzogchen forum, have you associate the teaching as non-definitive? What is the quality of dzogchen teaching are you trying to communicate to followers of other tradition of buddhism which are definitive?krodha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:52 pm But this is directed at you, so take it or leave it: my advice for dealing with difficult situations in everyday life would be to remain mindful of impermanence and the apparent peaks and valleys of experience. You will have difficult times, and you will have good times.
Fully expect difficult times and accept that it is part of life. Loss and difficulty is the other side of gain and easy times, so expect the ebb and flow. Be prepared and expect it, when it arises do your best to handle it effectively. What arises will fall, what comes together will fall apart, what is born will die... suffering comes from resistance and an inability to expand one's scope to see opportunity when doors close. Try to be an optimist.
Overall view this life like a dream. None of it is actually real. It is a magnificent display of color, sound and sensation. Investigate your mind, it is the root of it all.
As for contemplation, it is like a glass of water, there is no benefit for your thirst unless you drink it. And after you have you will see what color, sound and sensation really are, and how serious difficult situations really are in the grand scope.
Life is a teacher. Learn from your experiences, be thankful for this life. Forge mental fortitude in the flames of gain and loss. A small boat is tossed around by the waves, you can't fix the waves, but you can improve the size and strength of the boat.
Be well.
</life_advice>
Re: pre-emptive contemplation in difficult situations?
Yes.marting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:18 pm Hi Jyoti,
Ah, OK! Thanks! So the Jnana recollects the knowledge base of Rigpa, which underlining the recollection is calm and insight that leads to confidence of the state of Rigpa that one has realized, moving the conceptual/emotional process into that state of base knowledge and therefore displacing the defilement of the mind into the power of intelligence. This displacement is transformed into the the power of intelligence, though gradually. Am I on the right track?Jyoti wrote:Calm and insight is the practice to either get you to realise the state of Rigpa, or to enable you to gain confidence in the state of Rigpa. Once you are confident in the state of Rigpa, then you can train in the recollection of the state of Rigpa with the intellect/jnana. Once becoming familiar with the recollection, you can integrate the various conceptual/emotional process with this knowledge-recollection, gradually the defilement of the mind itself will be transformed as the power of intelligence, and various distraction will be under the control of the intellgence/jnana.