Worldly wish fulfilling mantras?

[Josef]

Though it seems it is considered something that can be achieved through practice, it really doesn't seem to fit in with other worldly siddhis. Contrary to wealth, removing obstacles, etc., finding a girlfriend is something inherently counterproductive to practice.

This is definitely not the case. Some people are more inclined to using their relationships as a spiritual support (this goes far beyond goofy notions of sexual spirituality).
Many practitioners have flourished through their intimate relationships and many of our lineage masters have done the same.

Do you know for a fact that in the majority of the cases of lineage masters being married the choice is not largely cultural? And that they actually flourished because of the relationship, while their realization would be less without it?

Of course it is not necessarily always negative. But there really is no way to compare an advanced practitioner having a partner to someone of little realization having a partner who is also of little realization. As I see it, it is at the very best a neutral thing as far as practice goes, and this is probably only true for a very small minority of the cases, with most of them falling more or less into the 'counterproductive' range.

I am not saying one shouldn't have a relationship. But that it is not something that really helps, such as having obstacles to practice removed, longer life so that you have more time for practice, and other kinds of mundane siddhis that support practice.

A reading of any namthar collection will answer your first question. Hint: there are countless episodes of masters either further propagating the teachings by being in relationships or having a lesser impact do to remaining renunciates.
You do realize that relationships are contributors to those mundane siddhis you mention, right?

[Aryjna]

This is definitely not the case. Some people are more inclined to using their relationships as a spiritual support (this goes far beyond goofy notions of sexual spirituality).
Many practitioners have flourished through their intimate relationships and many of our lineage masters have done the same.

Do you know for a fact that in the majority of the cases of lineage masters being married the choice is not largely cultural? And that they actually flourished because of the relationship, while their realization would be less without it?

Of course it is not necessarily always negative. But there really is no way to compare an advanced practitioner having a partner to someone of little realization having a partner who is also of little realization. As I see it, it is at the very best a neutral thing as far as practice goes, and this is probably only true for a very small minority of the cases, with most of them falling more or less into the 'counterproductive' range.

I am not saying one shouldn't have a relationship. But that it is not something that really helps, such as having obstacles to practice removed, longer life so that you have more time for practice, and other kinds of mundane siddhis that support practice.

A reading of any namthar collection will answer your first question. Hint: there are countless episodes of masters either further propagating the teachings by being in relationships or having a lesser impact do to remaining renunciates.
You do realize that relationships are contributors to those mundane siddhis you mention, right?

I don't realize that actually Why are they contributors?

[Josef]

Do you know for a fact that in the majority of the cases of lineage masters being married the choice is not largely cultural? And that they actually flourished because of the relationship, while their realization would be less without it?

Of course it is not necessarily always negative. But there really is no way to compare an advanced practitioner having a partner to someone of little realization having a partner who is also of little realization. As I see it, it is at the very best a neutral thing as far as practice goes, and this is probably only true for a very small minority of the cases, with most of them falling more or less into the 'counterproductive' range.

I am not saying one shouldn't have a relationship. But that it is not something that really helps, such as having obstacles to practice removed, longer life so that you have more time for practice, and other kinds of mundane siddhis that support practice.

A reading of any namthar collection will answer your first question. Hint: there are countless episodes of masters either further propagating the teachings by being in relationships or having a lesser impact do to remaining renunciates.
You do realize that relationships are contributors to those mundane siddhis you mention, right?

I don't realize that actually Why are they contributors?

Read those namthars
Having a "consort" is often said to be a contributor to long life and creating advantageous for practice, transmission, and terma (in certain individuals of course).
Not to mention the numerous western scientific studies that show healthy relationships contribute to longer lives.

[Aryjna]

A reading of any namthar collection will answer your first question. Hint: there are countless episodes of masters either further propagating the teachings by being in relationships or having a lesser impact do to remaining renunciates.
You do realize that relationships are contributors to those mundane siddhis you mention, right?

I don't realize that actually Why are they contributors?

Read those namthars
Having a "consort" is often said to be a contributor to long life and creating advantageous for practice, transmission, and terma (in certain individuals of course).
Not to mention the numerous western scientific studies that show healthy relationships contribute to longer lives.

Any specific suggestions?

My main point is in relation to the majority of practitioners, that are far less advanced in their practice. Realistically speaking, in most cases it takes up a lot of time that could be spent practicing/studying, and it also creates strong negative emotions.

[Josef]

I don't realize that actually Why are they contributors?

Read those namthars
Having a "consort" is often said to be a contributor to long life and creating advantageous for practice, transmission, and terma (in certain individuals of course).
Not to mention the numerous western scientific studies that show healthy relationships contribute to longer lives.

Any specific suggestions?

My main point is in relation to the majority of practitioners, that are far less advanced in their practice. Realistically speaking, in most cases it takes up a lot of time that could be spent practicing/studying, and it also creates strong negative emotions.

I love Nyoshul Khenpos collection, A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems, but there are other anecdotes in Enlightened Vagabond, and numerous other life stories.

I agree that if handled from the perspective of the 8 worldly concerns relationships are not helpful. But, if engaged with bodhicitta a relationship can be an excellent support for practice. Both from the perspective of its challenges as well as rewards.

[Aryjna]

Read those namthars
Having a "consort" is often said to be a contributor to long life and creating advantageous for practice, transmission, and terma (in certain individuals of course).
Not to mention the numerous western scientific studies that show healthy relationships contribute to longer lives.

Any specific suggestions?

My main point is in relation to the majority of practitioners, that are far less advanced in their practice. Realistically speaking, in most cases it takes up a lot of time that could be spent practicing/studying, and it also creates strong negative emotions.

I love Nyoshul Khenpos collection, A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems, but there are other anecdotes in Enlightened Vagabond, and numerous other life stories.

I agree that if handled from the perspective of the 8 worldly concerns relationships are not helpful. But, if engaged with bodhicitta a relationship can be an excellent support for practice. Both from the perspective of its challenges as well as rewards.

It seems interesting, but it is gigantic and there are too many things that I need to read. I may start reading it slowly along with other things.

[Josef]

Any specific suggestions?

My main point is in relation to the majority of practitioners, that are far less advanced in their practice. Realistically speaking, in most cases it takes up a lot of time that could be spent practicing/studying, and it also creates strong negative emotions.

I love Nyoshul Khenpos collection, A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems, but there are other anecdotes in Enlightened Vagabond, and numerous other life stories.

I agree that if handled from the perspective of the 8 worldly concerns relationships are not helpful. But, if engaged with bodhicitta a relationship can be an excellent support for practice. Both from the perspective of its challenges as well as rewards.

It seems interesting, but it is gigantic and there are too many things that I need to read. I may start reading it slowly along with other things.

It is gigantic.
Sometimes I forget that not everyone is as voraciously nerdy as I.

[Aryjna]

I love Nyoshul Khenpos collection, A Marvelous Garland of Rare Gems, but there are other anecdotes in Enlightened Vagabond, and numerous other life stories.

I agree that if handled from the perspective of the 8 worldly concerns relationships are not helpful. But, if engaged with bodhicitta a relationship can be an excellent support for practice. Both from the perspective of its challenges as well as rewards.

It seems interesting, but it is gigantic and there are too many things that I need to read. I may start reading it slowly along with other things.

It is gigantic.
Sometimes I forget that not everyone is as voraciously nerdy as I.

I will probably read it in time, but things directly related to practice are more of a priority at the moment and I have a long list of things to read as soon as possible.

[fckw]

My main point is in relation to the majority of practitioners, that are far less advanced in their practice. Realistically speaking, in most cases it takes up a lot of time that could be spent practicing/studying, and it also creates strong negative emotions.

And by the application of which siddhis exactly are you able to make judgement calls as to the advancement in realization of other forum participants?

[tingdzin]

If you can find a girlfriend who isn't jealous of the time you spend in practice, even if it's a lot (or who practices as much or more than you) who doesn't demand or expect material things from you

If she is not emotionally very needy (and you are not either)

if she is not under the sway of people who are lost in the world (e.g. family),

if both of you have genuine bodhicitta,

you might have a chance at being a good dharma couple.

Forget about all this talk about "consorts" -- this is for people who are already very well and deeply involved in advanced practice.

And, to second Pema Chophel, reread "The Monkey's Paw" or "The Chaser" (both short, and probably available online), and be careful what you wish for.

[Grigoris]

And in contrast to what was said before: No, there is no separation in Tantra with regards to the worldly and the spiritual.

Of course there is a seperation. The seperation is based on motivation.

Taking a crap can be made into a Buddhist practice if one recites purifying/offering mantra to the Hungry Ghosts while doing so, otherwise it is just taking a crap.

[Aryjna]

My main point is in relation to the majority of practitioners, that are far less advanced in their practice. Realistically speaking, in most cases it takes up a lot of time that could be spent practicing/studying, and it also creates strong negative emotions.

And by the application of which siddhis exactly are you able to make judgement calls as to the advancement in realization of other forum participants?

I don't think we understand each other. It's ok.

[Simon E.]

There isn't time spent practising and then the rest of life. Life IS practice. All of it. On and off the cushion. Even reading needn't be an obstacle if done right.
Of course it will never be a substitute for relationship as a skillful means, but it's OK.

[Aryjna]

There isn't time spent practising and then the rest of life. Life IS practice. All of it. On and off the cushion. Even reading needn't be an obstacle if done right.

Yes, but to be able to do that effectively you need to have a clear idea of what you're doing, which requires a significant amount of formal practice too in most cases. And there still are more or less favourable circumstances. I agree with tingdzin's post above.

[Simon E.]

We don't get a clear idea of what we are doing by separating practice and the rest of life.
We practice what we are given by our teacher.
Over time this carries it's own internal logic and becomes self reinforcing.
We don't watch ourselves watching ourselves watching ourselves in an act of infinite regression, interspersed with a bit of reading to check whether we are watching ourselves watching ourselves in the correct prescribed way.
We do what needs doing to the best of our ability. Sometimes this is clear to us. At other times it needs shraddha. Shraddha includes trusting the process. Trusting our teacher.

[Grigoris]

It would be pretty difficult for a realisation of our true nature (and that of phenomena) to not leak into our daily life.

[Aryjna]

We don't get a clear idea of what we are doing by separating practice and the rest of life.
We practice what we are given by our teacher.
Over time this carries it's own internal logic and becomes self reinforcing.
We don't watch ourselves watching ourselves watching ourselves in an act of infinite regression, interspersed with a bit of reading to check whether we are watching ourselves watching ourselves in the correct prescribed way.
We do what needs doing to the best of our ability. Sometimes this is clear to us. At other times it needs shraddha. Shraddha includes trusting the process. Trusting our teacher.

So, why seek a girlfriend? This does not contradict something I said as far as I can tell.

[Simon E.]

Seeking a girlfriend or boyfriend is for some people part of the 'rest of life' which is not separate from Dharma.
This is a forum for the Mahayana and Vajrayana. Not for the hinayana.

Much of the Vajrayana (and arguably all of Dzogchen) are not paths of renunciation but of integration.

Boyfriends, girlfriends, music, wine, and good pizzas are all grist to the mill of Dharma.

[Aryjna]

Seeking a girlfriend or boyfriend is for some people part of the 'rest of life' which is not separate from Dharma.
This is a forum for the Mahayana and Vajrayana. Not for the hinayana.

Much of the Vajrayana (and arguably all of Dzogchen) are not paths of renunciation but of integration.

Boyfriends, girlfriends, music, wine, and good pizzas are all grist to the mill of Dharma.

There is a difference between integrating all circumstances to your practice and actively seeking things that really have nothing to do with it, just because they can be said to be a part of life. Many things can be a part of life, we are talking about what is directly beneficial.

[Simon E.]

There is literally nothing that is intrinsically 'nothing to do with it'.

The idea that there are areas of life which have nothing to do with Dharma is the hinayana view. The hinayana view is not exclusive to any particular school.

Motivation and awareness is all.