What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
-
- Posts: 2767
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Well, question is pretty clear. In vajrayana teaching, what does it means "emanaion of" so and so?
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
For example, for many, James Bond “embodies” the qualities of a dashing playboy.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
This term needs to be eradicated and replaced with 'e nongenderspecific ation'.
It is time that these terrible archaisms were expunged forever!!
Seriosuly, as far as I know it means something literally 'handed out' or 'sent out' from a Buddha. So a Buddha can 'emanate' pretty much anything - people, spirits, rocks, etc. It seems that the term has become part of 'people puffery' with claims that such and such a person is an 'emanation' of a particular Buddha. That person may indeed be an emanation..........but so may the dog down the road.
It is time that these terrible archaisms were expunged forever!!
Seriosuly, as far as I know it means something literally 'handed out' or 'sent out' from a Buddha. So a Buddha can 'emanate' pretty much anything - people, spirits, rocks, etc. It seems that the term has become part of 'people puffery' with claims that such and such a person is an 'emanation' of a particular Buddha. That person may indeed be an emanation..........but so may the dog down the road.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
It would probably be a good idea to see what the original term is.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
སྤྲུལ - sprul, thats my guess for a word (as ive done some research in wylie) seems like emanation/manifestation is the easiest term to understand of its meaning.
regards,
Luke
regards,
Luke
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
The original term is sprul pa, for example emanation of Manjushri is 'jam dbyangs kyi sprul pa, hence tulku = sprul pa'i sku.
In this way we have sku sprul, gsung sprul, thugs sprul, yon tan gyi sprul and phrin las kyi sprul.
The other term used in connection with reborn lamas is yangsi - lit. further existence, meaning new rebirth.
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
That's useful, but how accurate is 'emanation' as a translation?dzoki wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:05 pmThe original term is sprul pa, for example emanation of Manjushri is 'jam dbyangs kyi sprul pa, hence tulku = sprul pa'i sku.
In this way we have sku sprul, gsung sprul, thugs sprul, yon tan gyi sprul and phrin las kyi sprul.
The other term used in connection with reborn lamas is yangsi - lit. further existence, meaning new rebirth.
It is a fairly precise English term, which I explored in my cack-handed way, but I guess the OP was seeking to discover what the original Tibetan or Indian concept means.
Specifically, is an emanation a part of a Buddha sent out, or just 'something' sent out?
What objects can be emanations, and what examples are given?
Are emanations without limitation in number and form?
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Edgerton's BHS dictionary gives:Mantrik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 pmThat's useful, but how accurate is 'emanation' as a translation?dzoki wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:05 pmThe original term is sprul pa, for example emanation of Manjushri is 'jam dbyangs kyi sprul pa, hence tulku = sprul pa'i sku.
In this way we have sku sprul, gsung sprul, thugs sprul, yon tan gyi sprul and phrin las kyi sprul.
The other term used in connection with reborn lamas is yangsi - lit. further existence, meaning new rebirth.
It is a fairly precise English term, which I explored in my cack-handed way, but I guess the OP was seeking to discover what the original Tibetan or Indian concept means.
Specifically, is an emanation a part of a Buddha sent out, or just 'something' sent out?
What objects can be emanations, and what examples are given?
Are emanations without limitation in number and form?
nirmita
[L=8428] [p= 302,2]
nirmita (= Pali nimmita), (1) ppp. of nirminoti,
q.v.; (2) nt., a magic creation: bhagavān °taṃ visarjayati
Divy 138.13; Av i.4.12; nirmitopamaṃ māyopamaṃ SP
137.10, like a magic creation, an illusory thing (mirage);
(3) as n. of a class of gods, = nirmāṇarati; so very
clearly in Mv ii.349.13 (vs) °tā (devāḥ), the verse equivalent
of nirmāṇaratī 348.17 (prose); elsewhere, SP 235.1--2
(prose, see s.v. samāvartayati); 237.2, 6; LV 45.11;
50.5 (read nirmitāś for nim°); 213.15; 215.13; 219.8;
sg., one of the class, 241.2; (4) n. of a former Buddha:
Mv iii.237.11; (5) n. of a Bodhisattva: Gv 442.3.
emanation (n.)
1560s, from Late Latin emanationem (nominative emanatio), noun of action from past participle stem of Latin emanare "flow out, spring out of," figuratively "arise, proceed from," from assimilated form of ex "out" (see ex-) + manare "to flow," from PIE root *ma- (3) "damp."
Tibetan sprul ba: generate (skyed), issue forth ('phro bar byed pa), issue forth as many ('gyed pa), transform ('gyur).
A sprul pa is a rnam par 'phrul pa (vikurvita).
BHS
vikurvita
[L=13624] [p= 481,2]
vikurvita, nt. (seems commonest of this group in
BHS; orig. ppp. of vikurvati, but noted only as noun;
not so used in Pali), miracle: dṛṣṭvā vikurvita mamā LV
119.8 (vs); buddha-vi° Mv i.266.17; ii.33.4 (both prose);
nirīkṣituṃ Śākyamuner °tam Divy 269.7 (vs); others,
Av i.258.9; Samādh 22.19; Bhad 45 (°vitu, acc. pl.; no
v.l.); Kv 13.17; 24.10; Mmk 6.1 (read °taṃ for °tuṃ);
Gv (common) 6.5; tathāgata-vi° 18.26, et passim.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
I am no linguist, but sanskrit nirmAna of which sprul pa is a translation means to make, build, create, to transform and to provide. So I guess, creation would be better reflecting the original meaning, but I guess translators wanted to avoid it sounding like a creation of some god. Sprul - in Tibetan (apart from meaning given in dictionary as emanate) means to make appear, to transform, to mentally create.Mantrik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 pmThat's useful, but how accurate is 'emanation' as a translation?dzoki wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:05 pmThe original term is sprul pa, for example emanation of Manjushri is 'jam dbyangs kyi sprul pa, hence tulku = sprul pa'i sku.
In this way we have sku sprul, gsung sprul, thugs sprul, yon tan gyi sprul and phrin las kyi sprul.
The other term used in connection with reborn lamas is yangsi - lit. further existence, meaning new rebirth.
It is a fairly precise English term, which I explored in my cack-handed way, but I guess the OP was seeking to discover what the original Tibetan or Indian concept means.
Specifically, is an emanation a part of a Buddha sent out, or just 'something' sent out?
What objects can be emanations, and what examples are given?
Are emanations without limitation in number and form?
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
correction - I meant to say nouns not verbs - creation, making etc.dzoki wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:54 pmI am no linguist, but sanskrit nirmAna of which sprul pa is a translation means to make, build, create, to transform and to provide. So I guess, creation would be better reflecting the original meaning, but I guess translators wanted to avoid it sounding like a creation of some god. Sprul - in Tibetan (apart from meaning given in dictionary as emanate) means to make appear, to transform, to mentally create.Mantrik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:12 pmThat's useful, but how accurate is 'emanation' as a translation?dzoki wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:05 pm
The original term is sprul pa, for example emanation of Manjushri is 'jam dbyangs kyi sprul pa, hence tulku = sprul pa'i sku.
In this way we have sku sprul, gsung sprul, thugs sprul, yon tan gyi sprul and phrin las kyi sprul.
The other term used in connection with reborn lamas is yangsi - lit. further existence, meaning new rebirth.
It is a fairly precise English term, which I explored in my cack-handed way, but I guess the OP was seeking to discover what the original Tibetan or Indian concept means.
Specifically, is an emanation a part of a Buddha sent out, or just 'something' sent out?
What objects can be emanations, and what examples are given?
Are emanations without limitation in number and form?
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Thanks Malcolm and Dzoki.
So we perhaps have a magical creation sent forth.
Is what is sent a creation only, or a part of the Buddha sending it?
Is it correct to say that any object may be an emanation, including rocks, streams etc. rather than only sentient beings?
(Note: I wrote 'handed out', because 'eman.....' (i.e. 'ex manus') would translate as 'out of hand' so didn't think it a very accurate term. )
So we perhaps have a magical creation sent forth.
Is what is sent a creation only, or a part of the Buddha sending it?
Is it correct to say that any object may be an emanation, including rocks, streams etc. rather than only sentient beings?
(Note: I wrote 'handed out', because 'eman.....' (i.e. 'ex manus') would translate as 'out of hand' so didn't think it a very accurate term. )
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
So both in both the Tibetan and Sanskrit terms, it would be better translated as "magical creation"?
Emanation is a bad translation, makes people think of (Neo-)Platonism.
I hope I don't muddy the waters here, but it seems that maybe we could just use "tulpa" since it was popularized by Alexandra David-Neel. She wrote some fantasies about the idea, but it seems to me that the basic concept of an illusory entity is still there, as opposed to "emanation" which would probably make people with Abrahamic/Platonist backgrounds think of other stuff.
Emanation is a bad translation, makes people think of (Neo-)Platonism.
I hope I don't muddy the waters here, but it seems that maybe we could just use "tulpa" since it was popularized by Alexandra David-Neel. She wrote some fantasies about the idea, but it seems to me that the basic concept of an illusory entity is still there, as opposed to "emanation" which would probably make people with Abrahamic/Platonist backgrounds think of other stuff.
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
According to the definition Malcolm quoted above, it's not "ex manus", it's from "ex manare" (manare = flow). "Outflowing".Mantrik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:15 pm Thanks Malcolm and Dzoki.
So we perhaps have a magical creation sent forth.
Is what is sent a creation only, or a part of the Buddha sending it?
Is it correct to say that any object may be an emanation, including rocks, streams etc. rather than only sentient beings?
(Note: I wrote 'handed out', because 'eman.....' (i.e. 'ex manus') would translate as 'out of hand' so didn't think it a very accurate term. )
This makes sense if you understand the classical worldview (which mediaeval Christians adopted). They believed in the seven planetary spheres and the prime mover beyond them. Objects are manifested on Earth after flowing down from the eternal prime mover down the spheres.
It makes less sense in a Buddhist context.
Last edited by MiphamFan on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Losal Samten
- Posts: 1591
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:05 pm
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Are manomayakaya and nirmanakaya equivalent terms in Mahayana?
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Ah, missed that, thanks.MiphamFan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:39 amAccording to the definition Malcolm quoted above, it's not "ex manus", it's from "ex manare" (manare = flow). "Outflowing".Mantrik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:15 pm Thanks Malcolm and Dzoki.
So we perhaps have a magical creation sent forth.
Is what is sent a creation only, or a part of the Buddha sending it?
Is it correct to say that any object may be an emanation, including rocks, streams etc. rather than only sentient beings?
(Note: I wrote 'handed out', because 'eman.....' (i.e. 'ex manus') would translate as 'out of hand' so didn't think it a very accurate term. )
This makes sense if you understand the classical worldview (which mediaeval Christians adopted). They believed in the seven planetary spheres and the prime mover beyond them. Objects are manifested on Earth after flowing down from the eternal prime mover down the spheres.
It makes less sense in a Buddhist context.
Yes, it is that Vajrayana meaning which is the real question, to which I added:
''Is what is sent a creation only, or a part of the Buddha sending it?
Is it correct to say that any object may be an emanation, including rocks, streams etc. rather than only sentient beings? ''
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
-
- Posts: 2767
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Mm most i heared is manifestation.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
-
- Posts: 2767
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
Do, in tibetan buddhism, emanation really means a being that embodies some buddha-archtype? Or a portion of a great being? Or both?
Seems like a archtype/individual stuff that happens in tantra interpretation.
Seems like a archtype/individual stuff that happens in tantra interpretation.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: What do 'emanation of' means according to vajrayana?
I have found great comparison on the trikaya idea:
If we were to compare Dharmakaya to vapor, Sambhogakaya to clouds, then Nirmanakaya to rain.
And HE Tais Situpa saying: "dharmakaya, sambhogakaya, and nirmanakaya are not separate from each other. They are just three different aspects of the state of a buddha, which is indivisible."
I guess its becouse we have so many mental afflictions we cannot go trough to get to Dharmakaya, thus we need to practice to the level we can communicate with Sambhogakaya untill then we are following Nirmanakaya
Luke
If we were to compare Dharmakaya to vapor, Sambhogakaya to clouds, then Nirmanakaya to rain.
And HE Tais Situpa saying: "dharmakaya, sambhogakaya, and nirmanakaya are not separate from each other. They are just three different aspects of the state of a buddha, which is indivisible."
I guess its becouse we have so many mental afflictions we cannot go trough to get to Dharmakaya, thus we need to practice to the level we can communicate with Sambhogakaya untill then we are following Nirmanakaya
Luke