A call for back to basics

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Minobu
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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Minobu » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:07 pm

markatex wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:52 pm
It's the same with Tien Tai ism....
How far down that rabbit hole did Nichiren go...Did He sort of lighten up on the teaching and FOCUS on something other. How much did He borrow and leave aside?
He borrowed a LOT. I'm not sure what you mean by "lightening up on the teaching." Off hand, I'd say that ichinen sanzen and the Five Periods and Eight Teachings are the main things from Tendai that are most important in understanding Nichiren Buddhism.
i just thought he sort of borrowed the main teachings but then added so much more that it sort of lightens the effect of Tien Taiism and we end up with something other.

As for filth..sorry if it brings up evangelical stuff..I started using that term well after after the TV series shogun so many years ago ...i read the book also..and like it was a term used by Samurai ...i liked it for it was the complete opposite of everything that purity means. i was a die hard Gakki member then fanatical as they come...i mean really fanatical to the point of alienating myself from friends totally.

there is a scene in the book where Samurai urinate on these European sailors in a captive hold. The Samurai are confused and appalled that they don't all kill themselves after the indignity upon their persons.

Then the Samsuri referring to meat eaters as Filth Eaters....I loved that expression and used it often ...

now i guess i've lightened up on it and just use it most appropriate when discussing false teachings done in the Name of Bodhisattva Nichiren Shonin.


I'm confused as well to see some people indifferent to the fact filth gets passed off on as purre Nichiren Shonin teachings , and they know it and are not screaming at their leaders.

so like sorry if it sounds evangelical but it isn't.

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Queequeg
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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Queequeg » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:58 pm

For the record, I went through that whole disillusion about the DaiGohonzon. shock, disappointment, anger, sense of loss, regret... etc.

And then one day it didn't matter anymore. It was all like some distant memory. Like it was a dream. I looked on myself who was caught up in all that and I saw him as a stranger might. I felt sorry for him. I wished I could go back and comfort him - "It'll be alright."

It could not have happened any other way. Looking back, I realize, I had to clean the urinals. I had to shovel the latrines. I had to go through the good times and bad times. THIS could not have happened any other way. All that chaff was me.

Wherever I went, there I was, and am.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Coëmgenu » Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:27 pm

Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:56 pm
even the words Lotus Buddhism ...who coined that phrase? is it misleading in a subtle way?
I don't know who coined it, but IMO it can be misleading, because there is a tendency to equate "Lotus Buddhism" solely and exclusively with "Nichiren Buddhism".

AFAIK, the "Lotus Tradition" consists of East Asian schools of Buddhism that hold the Lotus Sūtra as the definitive and final teaching, or most refined teaching, however one says it, of the Buddha. These include historical Tiāntāi and various descendents: Tendai, Cheontae, Thiên thai, & Nichiren Buddhism.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by DGA » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:12 am

The reason I spoke up earlier in this thread is because, as an outsider looking in, it seems to me that Nichiren's Buddhism is thriving.

There are a variety of different and active communities that are doing their work. There's plenty of activity going on all over the world. This is good, right? All walks of life are involved. It seems to me that's good too.

I've observed some disagreements among some of those regarding certain points of doctrine that I don't claim to have a grasp on. That hardly seems like a crisis, though.

Anyway I went to bed last night regretting that I didn't mention this point in my earlier post, and since I can't edit that, you get this instead.

Namo Buddhaya.

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Minobu
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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Minobu » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:22 pm

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:27 pm
Minobu wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:56 pm
even the words Lotus Buddhism ...who coined that phrase? is it misleading in a subtle way?
I don't know who coined it, but IMO it can be misleading, because there is a tendency to equate "Lotus Buddhism" solely and exclusively with "Nichiren Buddhism".

AFAIK, the "Lotus Tradition" consists of East Asian schools of Buddhism that hold the Lotus Sūtra as the definitive and final teaching, or most refined teaching, however one says it, of the Buddha. These include historical Tiāntāi and various descendents: Tendai, Cheontae, Thiên thai, & Nichiren Buddhism.
I've used the term recently . I think if you use it ....in terms of the initial revealing of the Lotus Sutra ,and then on down through the lineage masters who expressed it in a manner ,and that finally A Bodhisattva , a direct Disciple of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha , enabled The Lotus Sutra into a defined practice.

a practice that solely aims at the development of the individual towards Buddhahood and Liberation...or liberation and Buddhahood.

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Minobu » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:39 pm

DGA wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:12 am
The reason I spoke up earlier in this thread is because, as an outsider looking in, it seems to me that Nichiren's Buddhism is thriving.

There are a variety of different and active communities that are doing their work. There's plenty of activity going on all over the world. This is good, right? All walks of life are involved. It seems to me that's good too.

I've observed some disagreements among some of those regarding certain points of doctrine that I don't claim to have a grasp on. That hardly seems like a crisis, though.

Anyway I went to bed last night regretting that I didn't mention this point in my earlier post, and since I can't edit that, you get this instead.

Namo Buddhaya.
I've observed some disagreements among some of those regarding certain points of doctrine that I don't claim to have a grasp on. That hardly seems like a crisis, though.
I posted the thread due to my dilemna , which i feel is shared amongst all practitioners of this form of Buddhist practice.

Even the flakes that just don't care and hang in till they win the lottery.

I was taught to chant for things after my father was cured of the rarest of rare leukemias .
How i got to having my father cured was the way i practiced.

I was a TM practitioner. they taught us how to meditate and to just meditate whilst meditating. they told us that if we put everything aside and just meditated we would see in time , three to four months, our lives would change for the better ..let it happen and don't focus on it.


so when i was introduced i chanted "WITH" Gohonzon in that style.
Even though the person who introduced me and told me that my father could be cured if i chanted for him to get better.


I luckily ignored what others were being taught and just chanted seven hours a day..all my time in between eating sleeping and working...for three days before i saw him rise like Lazarus .

I did not focus on wanting or hoping ..I just "DID"..

after he was cured , he became a Buddhist with my mother ...they and i were paraded all over the world via a newspaper about how the chanting works.

When i talked of this style of chanting in meetings where they were telling peo[ple to chant for anything...i was told "NO"...you "MUST" have a goal and chant for it...blah blah...and my practiced degenerated to the point i quit ....


so you see

it's not just getting the authentic from the fake it's about how to practice as well....

When you sit and just "DO" in front of and With Gohonzon...your life is being cured ...

*Drops The Mike*

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Queequeg » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:04 pm

Minobu wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:39 pm
I posted the thread due to my dilemna , which i feel is shared amongst all practitioners of this form of Buddhist practice.

Even the flakes that just don't care and hang in till they win the lottery.

I was taught to chant for things after my father was cured of the rarest of rare leukemias .
How i got to having my father cured was the way i practiced.

I was a TM practitioner. they taught us how to meditate and to just meditate whilst meditating. they told us that if we put everything aside and just meditated we would see in time , three to four months, our lives would change for the better ..let it happen and don't focus on it.


so when i was introduced i chanted "WITH" Gohonzon in that style.
Even though the person who introduced me and told me that my father could be cured if i chanted for him to get better.


I luckily ignored what others were being taught and just chanted seven hours a day..all my time in between eating sleeping and working...for three days before i saw him rise like Lazarus .

I did not focus on wanting or hoping ..I just "DID"..

after he was cured , he became a Buddhist with my mother ...they and i were paraded all over the world via a newspaper about how the chanting works.

When i talked of this style of chanting in meetings where they were telling peo[ple to chant for anything...i was told "NO"...you "MUST" have a goal and chant for it...blah blah...and my practiced degenerated to the point i quit ....


so you see

it's not just getting the authentic from the fake it's about how to practice as well....

When you sit and just "DO" in front of and With Gohonzon...your life is being cured ...
NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *I NEED MONEY MONEY MONEY* NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *NO WHAMMIES NO WHAMMIES NO WHAMMIES (joke for folks of a certain age...) NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *AUDI BENZ BEEMER* NMRK NMRK NMRK *HOT BOOTY CALL* NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *GET ME A PROMOTION* NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *IF I GET THESE THINGS I WILL NEVER MISS GONGYO AGAIN* NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK

I've heard about:

NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *LET THIS DRUG DEAL GO DOWN, I'LL BE SET! NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK

It ended with the fella staring down the barrel of a gun, wet pants, no drugs, no money... He gave up dealing and became a pretty successful record producer. He said his prayers were answered. You don't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you might find, you get what you need...

I've also heard:

NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK *I WILL BEAT THIS CANCER* NMRK NMRK NMRK NMRK

Quite a few instances where advanced C went to remission. Those are the stories you hear about because... the cynic would say survivors tell stories.

My mother, perhaps facing her approaching mortality, seeing friends pass away, and the circumstances of their deaths, has started to talk about the circumstances of one's death. I heard my grandmother talk about the condition of the body after death. If you attain enlightenment at death, this is supposed to show in your body. You look relaxed, eyes slightly open, color is normal, body pliant. My mother has been wondering about the circumstances of her friends - one died gruesomely, murdered by his son. Another died during what should have been routine surgery - never waking up. Another who died with no family or friends, discovered days after on the floor of her kitchen. After a lifetime of apparently devoted practice, why would these unhappy ends come about?

If we consider ichinen sanzen, then the conclusion is these circumstances reflect karma.

I think I stick with what you discovered to have worked.

"I will now leave this beneficial medicine here. You should take it. Do not worry about not recovering."
-Lotus Sutra, Life Span Chapter
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by The Cicada » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:43 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:04 pm
Quite a few instances where advanced C went to remission. Those are the stories you hear about because... the cynic would say survivors tell stories.
Well, survivors may tell stories, but that doesn't mean they aren't true. Allow me a minor tangent in defense of story tellers by telling a story:

One night I was at the local riverwalk park, thoroughly loafing during a bout of unemployment near the beautiful visitor's center, complete with statues and a running waterfall flowing into artificial ponds, soaking up WiFi like an oak taking in the sun. At some point, the chocolate milk from the nearby convenience store had made its course through my system, and I began to make my way down the steps of the VC to the walking bridge to get to the facilities on the other side.

But I took a shortcut. In a dark spot where none could see and when no one was awake to care, I found relief. Yet, at least one person was awake, and as I began to quickly move away, anxious to cover my indiscretion, he stopped his bicycle to initiate a line of questioning. While his questions were all shaped in such a way as to discern my motives, means, history, and weaknesses, this short man was not an officer but instead dressed in the garb of a common thug with tattoos covering his face. I balked at his questions, and soon a subtle confrontation hidden in verbal context and body language emerged into an explicit threat.

He pulled a gun on me.

I let him go on talking but said nothing to provoke him. Thankfully, he began to back away once he seemed to feel he had gain a victory, though his words also communicated a profound sense of upset and aguish. But he kept talking and pointing his gun as he backed away. I took the opportunity to increase the distance, but as he kept talking he became more and more insolent, and I began to get the idea that he might just be holding a pellet gun. We shouted back and forth for a bit, and I wasn't in an easy spot for him to hit if he had fired, and he eventually left. I was enraged, but I calmed myself down, told myself he was probably a poser with a fake gun, and I went back to loafing.

Later that night, (no point in returning home to happy faces after a certain hour when you're unemployed,) I made my way to the proper facilities to once again give back to the community. As I approached, I saw the same small man talking to two others. One was an obvious goon, but the other had an air about him that I recognized from my younger days living with my father, and I knew he was in charge. Buddhism is wisdom, though lay life often is not. Honestly, I approached the three and casually began asking questions. I felt almost compelled to intrude because of the previous impoliteness of the gunman earlier that night, but no guns we're drawn.

Instead, my inquiries confirmed my intuition, and that was my recompense. The man in charge was undoubtedly involved in organized crime, the gunman was under some kind of pressure from him, and the goon was just too stupid to know what was good for him. Once again, I was almost attacked, but as the three slowly moved towards me without saying a word to give alarm, I simply moved away. Individually, each had their weaknesses, but in a group they were better left alone. I made no fuss to anyone over the suspicious group and suspiciously went on about my business, waiting for the proper hour to slink back home like a tomcat, unnoticed and unquestioned.

As the sun rose, the joggers came, the bustle of commuters in the town began, and as I sat with on a rock near the benches next to the river with my breakfast, the goon approached me. He actually apologized for his earlier behavior. He began telling me about his experiences, his time in prison, and how he had discovered something about himself during that time incarcerated. He was hitting on me. Fortunately, the sun was out, the park was full of witnesses, and I had a good deal of height and weight on him. I politely turned him down and as I finished my breakfast I laughed to myself. "No one will ever believe this happened."

The tortured gunman was this guy: http://archive.gosanangelo.com/news/loc ... 69631.html

True story, believe it or not. It doesn't matter.
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:04 pm
My mother, perhaps facing her approaching mortality, seeing friends pass away, and the circumstances of their deaths, has started to talk about the circumstances of one's death. I heard my grandmother talk about the condition of the body after death. If you attain enlightenment at death, this is supposed to show in your body. You look relaxed, eyes slightly open, color is normal, body pliant. My mother has been wondering about the circumstances of her friends - one died gruesomely, murdered by his son. Another died during what should have been routine surgery - never waking up. Another who died with no family or friends, discovered days after on the floor of her kitchen. After a lifetime of apparently devoted practice, why would these unhappy ends come about?

If we consider ichinen sanzen, then the conclusion is these circumstances reflect karma.

I think I stick with what you discovered to have worked.

"I will now leave this beneficial medicine here. You should take it. Do not worry about not recovering."
-Lotus Sutra, Life Span Chapter
This, however, is something to consider long and hard...

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Minobu
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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Minobu » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:39 pm

The Cicada wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:43 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:04 pm
Quite a few instances where advanced C went to remission. Those are the stories you hear about because... the cynic would say survivors tell stories.
Well, survivors may tell stories, but that doesn't mean they aren't true. Allow me a minor tangent in defense of story tellers by telling a story:

One night I was at the local riverwalk park,
First up ...you got a knack for good writing...you should write fiction stories.
that said , i believe your story to be true and that opening line was not a sarcastic knock but a true compliment...

with my imagination and your ability to put words together without setting the reader to just glancing over but actually enjoying the read....

who knows we could be a team....i'm serious...i was asked by a ghost writer long long time ago to do it together...

anyway...after seeing the guy ..UGH!!! man ...

i too had an encounter a few years back with a guy and a knife ...huge rasta threatening to kill me ...i said nothing..let him go on...acted like ..yeah this is all so normal...and then he went nutso and cut my Stanly hard plastic work box...the knife went right through...i used the opportunity to act normal in the situation...not judgeing the insanity of the situation just reacting as if normal....
so i go hands flinging up in the air" ah man ..look at what you did...thats my work box...ah man you broke it...." and walked away...

i figured he got the energy out ans gave him the satisfaction of doing it without reprisal...

i learned later this guy runs the apartment building i was in criminally and i was lucky not to die...

i think the protection of the gods was in play and i was grateful to them with an offering of Daimoku and recognition of their act and gratitude...

it's like working out some horrid piece of karmic retribution...

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by The Cicada » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:35 am

Minobu wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:39 pm

First up ...you got a knack for good writing...you should write fiction stories.
that said , i believe your story to be true and that opening line was not a sarcastic knock but a true compliment...
Thanks.
i used the opportunity to act normal in the situation...not judgeing the insanity of the situation just reacting as if normal....
LOL.


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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by illarraza » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:36 am

DGA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:00 am
Minobu wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:59 pm
when i say back to basics I am asking for a call to set this Buddhism right.
It's obvious there is a miss mash of authentic and fake teachings and writings which somewhere along the line needs to be set right.

We have a great crew that could really bring about more than a semblance of correct teachings and writing Nichiren Daishonin wanted the future to share in.

Maybe if Markatex ,Illarraza , Narwhal90 ,"Q" and of course Coëmgenu along with myself could somehow work on a draft of what it is all about.

A sort of coming together of people that really care about this Buddhism who want it to be as pure as it can be .

We could start slow....and build something that one day we could put up on a server that future struggling Bohdisatvas of the Earth could read and ponder.

Let it be stick in the craw of all those who are afraid to set it right and get past their status quo .

It cries out from Heaven ...the SGI shoshu break up is no coincidence...Dan Ross was no coincidence.... Q is no coincidence....

this is no coincidence...
Consider me a sympathetic outsider.

What, exactly, are you seeking to accomplish? I don't understand what you mean by purity and impurity. That is, I don't understand what, specifically, might be the problem you want to solve. Is it textual? Doctrinal? Practical? What's the objective here? Do you think Nichiren's Buddhism is in a state of crisis? If so, what is the nature of that crisis, what is its cause and so on?

If you'd like to see a solution to a problem, it's a lot easier when you have clarity about the problem itself.

I'll go back to lurking and drinking now. Good evening, friends.
Nichiren Buddhism is in a state of crisis.

The four dangers are rampant:

The first danger is mixing the clean with the unclean. No dog would ever intentionally eat ground glass. No infant would ever intentionally ingest a toxic substance nor would any mother intentionally give her baby a toxic substance. However, a dog will eagerly eat a steak inundated with ground glass and an infant will readily drink tainted breast milk. A mother, not knowing that the noxious drug is excreted into her breast milk, inadvertently gives it to her baby. This is what some serve to the children of the Buddha. They serve the poison of the heretical doctrines of Nichiren as True Buddha, The DaiGohonzon, and the Oneness of Living Mentor and Disciple to their children in the milk of Namu Myoho renge kyo. Or they, like a mean and deranged farmer, serve their loyal dog the ground glass of slander of the orthodox sects in the steak of the Jiga-ge.

The second danger is as noxious as mixing the clean with the unclean: Taking a piece of the teachings from the middle, a piece from the end, and a piece from the beginning and re-attaching them in reverse order or mixing them up. The former practice is like a surgeon who reverses a vein when creating an arterial bypass. The flow of blood ceases and the patient dies. The latter practice (that of mixing up the teachings) can be likened to a physician who is ignorant of adverse drug-drug interactions. He mixes two or three safe and efficacious drugs together which turns them into a powerful poison. The former practice of rearranging the teachings is commonplace in many sects. For example, those teachings that Nichiren Daishonin taught before he had fully developed his faith are given precedent over the later complete teachings or they promote the theoretical teachings of expedients over the essential teachings of abandoning expedients and the exclusive faith and practice of the Lotus Sutra. An example of the danger of mixing several efficacious practices which when mixed have a deleterious effect, are the practices of shoju and shakabuku which are practiced without understanding the times or the circumstances in which we live. They practice shoju towards the slanderers of the Dharma such as the Zen men, Nembutsu adherents, and believers in Islam and practice shakabuku towards the members of the Kempon Hokke and Fuju Fuse sect. These sundry practices are perpetrated on the children of the Buddha. Daisaku Ikeda, the salaried SGI leaders, the Nichiren Shoshu, and the Nichiren Shu priests are not good persons. Those in the Nichiren Shu who follow Nichiki and Nissatsu rather than Nichiren should be ashamed of themselves. They seem to have the mission of destroying the teachings and harming the children of the Buddha.

The third danger is that their are those who arbitrarily add doctrines and concepts to the Great Pure Teachings where none exist and claim them as “the original and authentic teachings of Nichiren Daishonin”. This is worse than forging Gosho because it is more insidious. By altering a word here or a word there, to already extant and authentic Gosho (literally putting words in Nichiren’s mouth), they become adept at fooling the people. This cunning and treachery they inherited from the perverse seven hundred year tradition of the Taisekaji priests and their Gosho Zenshu, Oral Teachings, and faked transfer documents. Fortunately, we have the unadulterated Showa Tehon Collection of Original Gosho (as well as expert linguists), to keep them honest. We also have the disciples and believers of the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin whose correct faith and understanding renders them capable of clarifying such matters.

The last danger is that many innocent people fall prey to the argument, “Nichiren said this but meant that” which is the teachings of the delusion of fundamental darkness. Since this is a visceral and emotional argument and the people are steeped in the Three Poisons, no amount of logic or scholarship will suffice to overturn it. Most people can no more see their own eyebrows than heaven in the distance [Nichiren]. It will require the wisdom of the Buddha born of faith in Nichiren Daishonin’s Gohonzon and the Lotus Sutra to destroy these arguments and devils.

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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by illarraza » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:51 am

Minobu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:55 pm
DGA wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:00 am


Consider me a sympathetic outsider.
Not to sound ungrateful , but only one who practices this form of Buddhism would totally understand the reasoning for the "Call" .

What, exactly, are you seeking to accomplish?
There are roughly 40 Nichiren sects.
I've belonged to two . I now practice totally independently .
I don't understand what you mean by purity and impurity. That is, I don't understand what, specifically, might be the problem you want to solve. Is it textual? Doctrinal?


There are authentic and forged writings of Nichiren Shonin's that need to be addressed. It sort of hard to distinguish between them and though there are sites that tell you which is which even that can be in question and is hard to nail down at times.

Nichiren Shonin understood Buddhism. We believe Him to be a direct disciple of Lord Sakyamuni Buddha. A Bodhisattva Leader of a group of Bodhisattvas who promised to to keep the Buddha's will . It is vital to separate the fake filth from the purity of His Legacy.
Practical?
the simple practice of chanting the Odaimoku is not in peril . The view of what it is exactly is still debated, a lot of it due to forged filth implanted into the various sects and accepted by some.
What's the objective here? Do you think Nichiren's Buddhism is in a state of crisis? If so, what is the nature of that crisis, what is its cause and so on?
It has always been in a state of crisis. The government at the time exiled Him, had ronin almost beheading Him and much more.

What's more it is in a state of crisis due to false view of Buddhism. It causes great harm to sentients living in the degenerative age and being told to follow ineffective methods to Buddhahood and liberation.
If you'd like to see a solution to a problem, it's a lot easier when you have clarity about the problem itself.

I'll go back to lurking and drinking now
.


Good evening, friends.
cheers and thanks for your concern. any form of relationship to Lotus Buddhism sets you apart from the chaff
Agreed! A glaring exam is the Four Dictums that was changed by Nichiki, Nissatsu, and Daisaku Ikeda. It is a fundamental doctrine of Nichiren and they changed it because of cowardice and serendipity.

"To merely repeat the four dictums simply because they came from the Daishonin, while ignoring people’s feelings and the changing times, is to overlook the Daishonin’s spirit. The four dictums are then nothing but dogma. That is what gives rise to the devilish aspects of religion. It is people and the heart that count. The four dictums are the manifestation of the Daishonin’s firm conviction to resolutely battle the devilish functions that serve to confuse people." -- Daisaku Ikeda

Nissatsu teaches, “Because we contemplate the Buddha, ceaselessly devils are quieted; because our words are true, traitors who would destroy the nation are subdued.”, thus changing the import and thrust of the Four Dictums.

Nichiren writes:

"...I say that the non-Buddhist scriptures are easier to believe and understand than the Hinayana sutras, the Hinayana sutras are easier than the Mahāvairochana and other [Correct and Equal] sutras, the Mahāvairochana and other sutras are easier than the Wisdom sutras, the Wisdom sutras are easier than the Flower Garland Sutra, the Flower Garland is easier than the Nirvana Sutra, the Nirvana is easier than the Lotus Sutra, and the theoretical teaching of the Lotus is easier than the essential teaching. Thus there are many levels of comparative ease and difficulty.

Question: What is the significance of knowing them?

Answer: The great lantern that illuminates the long night of the sufferings of birth and death, the sharp sword that severs the fundamental darkness inherent in life, is none other than the Lotus Sutra. The teachings of the True Word, Flower Garland, and other schools are categorized as those expounded in accordance with the people’s capacity. They are, therefore, easy to believe and understand. The teachings expounded in accordance with the people’s capacity are the sutras that the Buddha preached in response to the wishes of the people of the nine worlds, just as a wise father instructs an ignorant son in a way suited to the child’s understanding. On the other hand, the teaching expounded in accordance with the Buddha’s enlightenment is the sutra that the Buddha preached directly from the world of Buddhahood, just as a sage father guides his ignorant son to his own understanding.

In the light of this principle, I have carefully considered the Mahāvairochana, Flower Garland, Nirvana, and other [provisional] sutras, only to find that all of them are sutras expounded in accordance with the people’s capacity."

and again:

"Again, someone might object, saying: “Rather than insisting on preaching the Lotus Sutra when it does not accord with the people’s capacity, and thus causing them to slander it so that they fall into the evil paths, it would be better to preach the Nembutsu, which does suit their capacity, and thus awaken in them the aspiration for enlightenment. If someone not only fails to bring benefit to others, but on the contrary causes them to commit slander and fall into hell, he is no votary of theLotus Sutra but rather a person of false views.”

In reply to such objections, you should point out that in the Lotus Sutra the Buddha states that, whatever the people’s capacity may be, in the Latter Day of the Law one should persist in preaching the Lotus Sutra. Ask the questioner how he interprets that injunction. Does he claim that Shakyamuni Buddha, Bodhisattva Never Disparaging, T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and Dengyō are persons of false views or non-Buddhists?

Then again, with regard to persons of the two vehicles, who have not fallen into the evil paths and have also escaped from rebirth in the threefold world, the Buddha declares that it is better to arouse in oneself the mind of a dog or a fox than to have the mind of the two vehicles. He also warns that it is better to commit the five cardinal sins or the ten evil acts and fall into hell than to have the mind of the two vehicles. Not falling into the evil paths might appear to be a considerable benefit, but the Buddha did not regard this as his true intention. Even if one should fall into hell, because one has heard the Lotus Sutra, which leads to Buddhahood, with this as the seed, one will invariably become a Buddha.

Thus, T’ien-t’ai and Miao-lo, following this principle, state in their commentaries that one should persist in preaching the Lotus Sutra. For instance, a person who stumbles and falls to the ground pushes himself up from the ground and rises to his feet again. In the same way, though persons [who slander the Lotus Sutra] may fall into hell, they will quickly rise up again and become Buddhas.

The people of today in any event already turn their backs on the Lotus Sutra, and because of that error they will undoubtedly fall into hell. Therefore, one should by all means persist in preaching the Lotus Sutra and causing them to hear it. Those who put their faith in it will surely attain Buddhahood, while those who slander it will establish a “poison-drum relationship” with it and will likewise attain Buddhahood.


In any event, the seeds of Buddhahood exist nowhere apart from the Lotus Sutra. If it were possible to attain Buddhahood through the provisional teachings, then why would the Buddha have said that one should insist on preaching the Lotus Sutra, and that both those who slander it and those who believe in it will benefit? Or why would he say, “We care nothing for our bodies or lives [but are anxious only for the unsurpassed way]”? Persons who have set their minds upon the way should clearly understand these matters."

Here is my perspective and I dare say, Nichiren's: http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2016/07/t ... or-in.html

illarraza
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am

Re: A call for back to basics

Post by illarraza » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:02 am

Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:10 pm
Minobu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:53 pm
Queequeg wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:25 pm
This crisis you suggest is a manufactured crisis. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. All this concern over authentic and inauthentic is kind of splitting hairs.
Really now...
so like ......
speechless...
which is pretty much so not me....

ok composure....a call for composure minobu...
you Q are my main refuge in learning for the past year and half...

i thought you to be totally absent of the mediocrity that got us into this mess in the first place.

so we are now called to celebrate mediocrity.
Pass the LaBatts. :cheers:
Minobu wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:45 pm

ok further to this subject of accepting mediocrity and the Hongaku thing.
Whoa. That's not what I suggested. I didn't say anything about accepting or not accepting. I suggested not getting wrapped up in the hype. Forget the word, hongaku. It doesn't appear in Nichiren's writings. Stick to authentic writings. There is more than enough there to develop your practice. Seriously.

Look at Kanjin no Honzon sho - Nichiren explains that one must believe that the whole body of the Buddha is to be found in our mind.
It's only a few decades that the Dai gohonzon has been up for debunking, to the extent it is now.
Yeah for sure it has always been a topic amongst other sects of Nichiren besides ShoShu, but never has it so determined "VIEW" .
Let's make something clear - when Soka Gakkai brought Nichiren's teachings to the West, they brought a particular interpretation taught by Nichiren Shoshu. Among Nichiren sects, they stand apart. Radically so. No one else believes in the Dai Gohonzon. For people outside Nichiren Shoshu, its an oddity.

Just let it go, dude. Pay it no mind. You'll feel much better. Worrying about it, hating on it, its just more obsessing over it. Don't mind and it won't matter.
"VIEW"...
what you fill that head with is vital...
look at my mess...


Precisely. Stop obsessing about it and it goes away. Poof. They become just another group genuflecting around a charismatic icon. :shrug:

Stick to the 10 gosho Nikko identified as definitive.
the daigohonzon i mean really ..how many people focused all their attention on saving up to go there and chant to it like it was something special...
According to the Pali tradition, in the last life before he ascended to heaven to await his birth as Buddha, Shakyamuni was born as a king who gave away everything - the source of wealth for his kingdom, his treasures, his servants... anyone who came to him, he gave them whatever they asked for. An evil brahmin approached him and asked for his wife and child. The king gave them away without hesitation. The Brahmin enslaved the queen and prince and treated them terribly. And yet, it was that unreserved generosity, the perfection of giving, that enabled him to become a Buddha.

In the Lotus Sutra, in a past life, the Buddha was a king who promised to serve anyone who taught the Lotus Sutra to him. A brahmin came to him and offered to teach him if the king would become his servant. The king served the brahmin, but its not clear the brahmin ever taught him even a single phrase of the Lotus. It may have been a scam. But it didn't matter. What mattered was the sincerity of the king in seeking the Lotus Sutra.

It doesn't matter that the Daigohonzon is just a plank of wood with a gohonzon transcribed onto it. What mattered was the sincerity of those who sought it out. That's what mattered.

Once its pointed out to you, though, that its just a plank of wood, its hard to see it something other than a plank of wood.
You are wrong about "what mattered was the sincerity of those who sought it out". Many SGI members and every leader above Chapter Chief are pernicious. Initially, they may be absolutely sincere with the most noble of intentions but they are sincerely wrong and therefore they do irreparable damage. It is said, the road to hell is paved with the best intentions: For years ecologists and conservationists have been adopting wild land fire prevention strategies that have led to the biggest proliferation of forest fires in history; doctors over prescribing antibiotics in their desire to alleviate suffering has led to antibiotic resistant bacteria that threatens not only the most seriously ill hospitalized patients but the general public; the addition of MTBE [now outlawed] to gasoline to diminish air pollution has led to widespread water pollution; the addition of aggressive non-native species to fix various ecological imbalances have led to ecological disasters; the overuse of pesticides and ever more powerful fertilizers to increase crop yields have led to ever increasing oceanic dead zones...the list goes on and on. We might be able to overlook the behaviors of SGI members were they unaware of their grievous principles and practices. However, most leaders and many members, thanks to the internet, are aware of their misdeeds and demonstrate no willingness to change. SGI leaders are not only pernicious but malevolent.

http://markrogow.blogspot.com/2017/07/s ... lotus.html

illarraza
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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by illarraza » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:10 am

"Every act of sincere devotion to the Buddhadharma is never lost or wasted." -- QQ

Please explain this in light of Nichiren's teachings. If you mean the Daimoku, even then, Nichiren talked of errant disciples who chant the Daimoku. Certainly not devotion to Amida or Dainichi at the expense of Shakyamuni.

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Queequeg
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Re: A call for back to basics

Post by Queequeg » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:14 pm

illarraza wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:10 am
"Every act of sincere devotion to the Buddhadharma is never lost or wasted." -- QQ

Please explain this in light of Nichiren's teachings. If you mean the Daimoku, even then, Nichiren talked of errant disciples who chant the Daimoku. Certainly not devotion to Amida or Dainichi at the expense of Shakyamuni.
Ahab brought about everyone's demise, including noble Queequeg's, because of his monomaniacal obsession with a white whale.
We are told that parrots, simply by twittering the four noble truths of the Hinayana teachings, were able to be reborn in heaven, and that men, simply by respecting the three treasures, were able to escape being swallowed by a huge fish. How much more effective, then, is the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra, which is the very heart of all the eighty thousand sacred teachings of Buddhism and the eye of all the Buddhas! How can you doubt that by chanting it you can escape from the four evil paths?
-The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra

There is a distinction you neglect. If a person doesn't know better, there is no slander. The reason Nichiren criticized various teachers is because they were learned sages and knew better.

Most of the people you direct your venom against don't know any better. Their sincerity and faith is like the fellow with one eye.
"Here some bhikku progresses by a measure of faith and love. In this case bhikkus consider thus: 'Friends, this bhikku progresses by a measure of faith and love. Let him not lose that measure of faith and love, as he may if we take action against him by repeatedly admonishing him.' Suppose a man had only one eye; then his friends and companions, his kinsmen and relatives, would guard his eye, thinking: 'Let him not lose his one eye.' So too some bhikku progresses by a measure of faith and love.
-Bhaddali Sutta

There is a time and place for Shoju and a time and place for Shakubuku.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

I think each human being has things to find out in his own life that are inescapable. They’ll find them out the easy way or the hard way, or whatever.
-Jerry Garcia

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