What is a Woman?

Casual conversation between friends. Anything goes (almost).
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Jesse
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by Jesse » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:30 am

DGA wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:03 am
Jesse wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:08 am

It's nice and all that you purport to be more informed than the medical community while linking no relevant credible research, but I think I'll trust peer reviewed research.

Everything that you mention is a cultural advancement, and does not apply to basic biology. Biology is a science. For example if you are born with a male body, no matter how much you wish it; you can not bear children within your own body. Why? Because your body is male. (Male is a simple conceptual construct identifying a combination of genetic and chromosome combinations, and the resulting body structure.)

As far as biology is concerned, there are essentially two sexes. Male, and Female. Period.

Trying to impose social stances onto a science is about as ignorant as ignorant gets.

It's about as ignorant as trying to impose biology as a defacto stance to what applies to something like the mind, identity, and personality.

No matter the hormosone variations a person is born with there still remain two essential genders, and I would love for your to identity a brand new gender, because not only I, but the entire biology community, and hell humanity would be quite amazed.

PS (The name of the article is quite relevant.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_disorders
Hi Jesse,

I work with biologists. I can say with confidence that you are holding to a somewhat idealistic and perhaps naive view of how science works. This leads to you hastily dismiss perspectives that don't correspond to your vision, and to misunderstand the claims that you yourself are trying to make.

I suggest you go back and read KathyLauren's posts, and Quay's too. Even if you disagree with them, you are likely to learn something from them.
I have read them. There is nothing for me to learn there.

Simply put, they are both incorrect.

Also, who would respond to someone's post who started out by attempting to invalidate your post by using a completly incorrect understanding of emptiness? While in their first post argued against points which I neither made, nor insinuated. In fact their entire post was entirely irrelevant to what I had said.
KathyLauren wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:31 am
Jesse wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:08 am
Again, I Stopped reading here.
Well, you are hardly going to become more informed whth that attitude, are you?

I should have expected that attitude from a man in a thread titled "What is a woman".

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
Ahh, and here. Assuming that my gender Identity is that of a man. Also implying that men somehow do not have a place in a discussion on 'what is a woman'. I suppose that means biologists should only be female as well?

The ignorance in this thread is astounding. As is the obviousness of the inner circles on this community, but hey don't let me interfere. This is why I quit posting here as much, this place is a cesspool of angst, and veiled aggression. TBH, I see it going the way of E-Sangha.

It's actually pretty distasteful all in all, I'm being told I should "Learn, and Listen" to other people's viewpoints, while no-one is expecting, nor told to listen to mine.

I suppose then that I've been "shown who's who of Dharmawheel", and whos opinion matters here eh? Perhaps you all should just start another "Who's the most popular, and most enlightened' Thread again, but of course, we all know who wins those. Cough.

I've nothing more to say on the topic, but I suppose I'll continue to poke my head in from time to time, for what reason I don't really know, because really this forum has little to offer these days.

:roll:
:alien:
:pig:

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Dan74
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by Dan74 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:17 am

Jesse, over the years I've come to appreciate your intelligent and sincere posts. And lord knows, I've felt the way you describe in your post above.

Sometimes it's time to take time off Fora (I'm entering a superbusy work/study period for instance). And sometimes it's just time to step back and examine our reactivity.

In any case, I also respect KathyLauren and justsit very much. And if they are wrong, or their personal journey has made them biased on this topic, we should try and respectfully engage with the points they make. No putdowns. They are also older people. Maybe I was raised more traditionally but I especially don't like being rude to folks double my age.

Let's all take a breath..

_/|\_

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KathyLauren
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by KathyLauren » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:25 pm

Jesse wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:30 am
The ignorance in this thread is astounding. As is the obviousness of the inner circles on this community, but hey don't let me interfere. This is why I quit posting here as much, this place is a cesspool of angst, and veiled aggression. TBH, I see it going the way of E-Sangha.

It's actually pretty distasteful all in all, I'm being told I should "Learn, and Listen" to other people's viewpoints, while no-one is expecting, nor told to listen to mine.

I suppose then that I've been "shown who's who of Dharmawheel", and whos opinion matters here eh? Perhaps you all should just start another "Who's the most popular, and most enlightened' Thread again, but of course, we all know who wins those. Cough.

I've nothing more to say on the topic, but I suppose I'll continue to poke my head in from time to time, for what reason I don't really know, because really this forum has little to offer these days.

:roll:
Jesse, I am sorry that you are feeling oppressed. Believe it or not, I can relate. This is a heavily male-dominated forum, where female points of view are not discussed, where only a male mode of debate is practised, and where, as a result, women do not feel welcome. (Yes, chicken-and-egg, I know.)

Because I am on here so seldom, I do not know who is in an inner clique or who is not, and I do not know the personalities of the members. I only know what I read in threads that interest me. So when I post in a thread, it is in response to the content of the posts, not to the personality of the poster.

However, when I was accused of not reading your post, I reacted. If you had told me I misunderstood, fine. But telling me I didn't read it? Seriously?? And then telling me that you refused to read mine. That is personal. And I responded with sarcasm, I admit, which is difficult to detect in print. My sarcasm was directed not only at you, but at the forum in general, where emptiness is often used as a "get out of jail" card to shut down dissenting views.

When I posted in this thread, it was to correct errors of fact. If the only voices heard are the ones with inforrect information, falsehoods will coninue to propagate.

This thread has become personal, which is unfortunate. I guess I will go back to lurking and leave the discussion to the boys' club.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

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fuki
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by fuki » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:35 pm

KathyLauren wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:25 pm

Jesse, I am sorry that you are feeling oppressed. Believe it or not, I can relate. This is a heavily male-dominated forum, where female points of view are not discussed, where only a male mode of debate is practised, and where, as a result, women do not feel welcome. (Yes, chicken-and-egg, I know.)
I'm very sorry to hear this, I do not know about male domination on this forum but I do see it in society and woman often efface themselves just to keep the "peace" I was raised by my mom and sister and I've seen too much male dominated stuff in my childhood causing dukkha for woman. Please just always speak your mind but I'm not sure it's handy to see things in a male-female spectrum (in terms of practise), where are living beings with our own vasanas and biologically man and their reptile brains are just wired a bit different, please don't be discouraged by it. Use your wisdom/compassion to open ppl's eyes (man and woman) You have my vote, I believe the world should be run by woman, business, politics etc ofcourse there are plenty of exceptions to the rule. Sorry if I shouldn't speak here, I didn't read the topic, this just caught my eye and wanted to offer some support.
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
https://meldpuntbg.nl/

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The Cicada
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by The Cicada » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:52 pm

KathyLauren wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:25 pm
Jesse, I am sorry that you are feeling oppressed. Believe it or not, I can relate. This is a heavily male-dominated forum, where female points of view are not discussed, where only a male mode of debate is practised, and where, as a result, women do not feel welcome. (Yes, chicken-and-egg, I know.)

Because I am on here so seldom, I do not know who is in an inner clique or who is not, and I do not know the personalities of the members. I only know what I read in threads that interest me. So when I post in a thread, it is in response to the content of the posts, not to the personality of the poster.

However, when I was accused of not reading your post, I reacted. If you had told me I misunderstood, fine. But telling me I didn't read it? Seriously?? And then telling me that you refused to read mine. That is personal. And I responded with sarcasm, I admit, which is difficult to detect in print. My sarcasm was directed not only at you, but at the forum in general, where emptiness is often used as a "get out of jail" card to shut down dissenting views.

When I posted in this thread, it was to correct errors of fact. If the only voices heard are the ones with inforrect information, falsehoods will coninue to propagate.

This thread has become personal, which is unfortunate. I guess I will go back to lurking and leave the discussion to the boys' club.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy
If permissible, I would like to take the thread into a brief tangent to discuss your perspective, because it is an interesting perspective.

We live in times when many controversial issues are coming to a head. What I find most intriguing in your post are the underlying assumptions that you are working from, and I want to understand why and how you have come to accept these assumptions as the most accurate description for what you encounter in the world from your own subjective experience.

When you write that you can identify with Jesse in feeling oppressed, how are you oppressed, and what are the implications of this for those of us reading and contributing here? When you write that "only a male mode of debate is practised," similarly, what are the wider implications of this? I can guess at what this means, but if my assumption is correct, your alternative may be suffocatingly stifling to some.

I want to understand, and unless those of us living in the world want to take the path of savage intolerance in one direction or another, we may all be stuck living here together with no way of escape. Many individuals in have made similar calls to be understood, to make their experience felt, in the present world and throughout the recorded past. I would like to know yours.

muni
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by muni » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:34 am

The Zen Master said do not follow the ideas of others but learn to listen to the voice inside yourself.( not to our formed ideas, not that)
Or instead of rejecting-accepting ideas ( like mine and others) we can also leave them. They are like winds, freed in the open sky.
At the other hand is respectfully listening the only way to understand each other. This is not so easy on internet.

Kathy, this is for you:
http://www.dakinipower.com/what-is-a-dakini/
*Look into the mirror of your mind* Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
*Look into own naked mind and stay there.

muni
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by muni » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:16 am

This is a heavily male-dominated forum, where female points of view are not discussed, where only a male mode of debate is practised, and where, as a result, women do not feel welcome.
Yes. Of course nature of mind is not female nor male, still the body-mind is tool-vehicle to go beyond and so there are differences for sure.

I come back with some of Jetsunma's words here: "To me the dakini principle stands for the intuitive force. Women.............they’re not interested in intellectual discussion which they normally find dry and cold with minimum appeal. "

Perhaps we can see so: the intellectual approaches have their place and are all perfect.
There is actually no location necessary for intuitive inspirational-practice, since it is not located.

This as well for men and women.
*Look into the mirror of your mind* Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
*Look into own naked mind and stay there.

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weitsicht
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by weitsicht » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:16 pm

muni wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:16 am

I come back with some of Jetsunma's words here: "To me the dakini principle stands for the intuitive force. Women.............they’re not interested in intellectual discussion which they normally find dry and cold with minimum appeal. "

Perhaps we can see so: the intellectual approaches have their place and are all perfect.
There is actually no location necessary for intuitive inspirational-practice, since it is not located.
I find the female underrepresented in this forum. I may be wrong since most Nicknames do not disclose.
But the habit of being righter than the other or wanting to have the last word is heavy, I dare say.

And yes you give the perfect answer: intuition does not need location.

I personally incline rather not push the respond button than "leaning into" whatever is going on in a thread.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

muni
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by muni » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:50 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:16 pm
muni wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:16 am

I come back with some of Jetsunma's words here: "To me the dakini principle stands for the intuitive force. Women.............they’re not interested in intellectual discussion which they normally find dry and cold with minimum appeal. "

Perhaps we can see so: the intellectual approaches have their place and are all perfect.
There is actually no location necessary for intuitive inspirational-practice, since it is not located.
I find the female underrepresented in this forum. I may be wrong since most Nicknames do not disclose.
But the habit of being righter than the other or wanting to have the last word is heavy, I dare say.

And yes you give the perfect answer: intuition does not need location.

I personally incline rather not push the respond button than "leaning into" whatever is going on in a thread.
Yes, very much underrepresented. And yes, inter-personal rivalry.
*Look into the mirror of your mind* Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
*Look into own naked mind and stay there.

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Nemo
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Location: Canada

Re: What is a Woman?

Post by Nemo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:03 pm

justsit wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:11 am
Nemo wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:56 am
Indeed. I would highly recommend procuring some and trying out your lovers hormone profile. A caution though. Testosterone is somewhat addictive and perhaps the best cure for PMS. You may not wish to go back.
Since starting testosterone (I'm FTM) 2 1/2 years ago, the only thing I can say I dislike is losing my head hair. Meh.

My libido, however, is still running full speed ahead. Very interesting, I must say.
Nothing produces empathy like experience. Having your lover roll over sweaty and spent to fall instantly asleep while you are thinking quietly to yourself "I haven't finished yet," is a useful touchstone for any man. The emotional patience with children produced by estrogen is useful for child rearing. Still haven't found anyone who takes estrogen for fun though. So many women at the gym are hooked on T now. Asians who aren't prone to excess body hair are particularly fond of it. Eventually they sound like smokers though as their voices change. T is so awesome for PMS as well.

You need to learn scalp massage to slow the hair loss. Use only the finger tips and no nails ever. Put your fingers touching nail to nail on top of your head. Press hard and move the fingers in opposite directions. If the pulling hurts in the area you are losing hair it is working. I was a medic and helmets caused a prolific loss. Opening up the hair pores works wonders. This simple trick is worth thousands in hair replacement.

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Nemo
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by Nemo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:08 pm

P.S. TERFs Suck!

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Quay
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Re: What is a Woman?

Post by Quay » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:20 pm

For those interested in intersex and third gender issues, here is a long and thougtfully detailed article from Human Rights Watch that goes into some detail about changing medical opinions, paradigms, and the state of things today.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/10/26/c ... -practices
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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