Well, singing pretty liturgies accompanied with a drum and bell is pretty phatic. But I emphatically insist that Chö itself requires no phat.dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:23 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:07 pmI find that as I get older, I tend to prefer apophatic practice; but certainly when I was younger in the Dharma, I was very enthusiastic about cataphatic practices (Greg, this is your cue to lecture me about misusing Greek words).
I do like practicing Chö liturgies though.
Well, Chö is a very phatic practice, if you catch my drift.
New Rigpa letter
Re: New Rigpa letter
Re: New Rigpa letter
Well, it is more phagic than phatic, but anyway...dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:23 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:07 pmI find that as I get older, I tend to prefer apophatic practice; but certainly when I was younger in the Dharma, I was very enthusiastic about cataphatic practices (Greg, this is your cue to lecture me about misusing Greek words).
I do like practicing Chö liturgies though.
Well, Chö is a very phatic practice, if you catch my drift.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: New Rigpa letter
Re: New Rigpa letter
Oh, okay, I get it: anybody that misinterprets your post because of it's lack of clarity is stupid.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: New Rigpa letter
I was Copraphagic, now I'm more Kataphatic, and soon likely to be Catatonic.Grigoris wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:53 pmWell, it is more phagic than phatic, but anyway...dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:23 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:07 pmI find that as I get older, I tend to prefer apophatic practice; but certainly when I was younger in the Dharma, I was very enthusiastic about cataphatic practices (Greg, this is your cue to lecture me about misusing Greek words).
I do like practicing Chö liturgies though.
Well, Chö is a very phatic practice, if you catch my drift.
http://www.khyung.com ཁྲོཾ
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath
Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
Re: New Rigpa letter
How did you get there?
The post was pretty clear. If one does not have pure vision, don't call out others for their lack of pure vision. If one does, one is a hypocrite, it does not matter if one is a beginner or a high tulku. I made absolutely no assessment of any particular person's mental state. There, now even stupid people reading this thread should be clear about it.
Re: New Rigpa letter
Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:09 pmThe post was pretty clear. If one does not have pure vision, don't call out others for their lack of pure vision. If one does, one is a hypocrite, it does not matter if one is a beginner or a high tulku. I made absolutely no assessment of any particular person's mental state. There, now even stupid people reading this thread should be clear about it.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
- Thomas Amundsen
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- Location: Helena, MT
- Contact:
Re: New Rigpa letter
I'm getting more of a Mark Twain vibe.Grigoris wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:22 pmhuh.jpgMalcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:09 pmThe post was pretty clear. If one does not have pure vision, don't call out others for their lack of pure vision. If one does, one is a hypocrite, it does not matter if one is a beginner or a high tulku. I made absolutely no assessment of any particular person's mental state. There, now even stupid people reading this thread should be clear about it.
Re: New Rigpa letter
Well said, reminds me of Hui Hai.
Q: You said earlier that wisdom is the function of the Way of Sudden Enlightenment, but what is wisdom?
A: If you understand that the nature of non-duality is voidness, then you are liberated. However, if you understand that the nature of duality is not void, then you are not liberated. Thus, wisdom is understanding what is right and what is wrong. It is also recognizing universal substance and its functions. The understanding of the voidness of duality is the substance of wisdom, while liberation, which is never allowing any thought whatsoever of existence or non-existence, good of evil, love or hate, etc., to arise, is known as understanding the function of the voidness of duality.
Q: Where can one enter the doorway to this understanding?
A: Through the perfection of charity (dana-paramita).
Q: Buddha has said that the six paramitas are the action of the Bodhisattva path, so how can we enter the doorway to this understanding by practicing, as you have said, only the dana-paramita?
A: People who are confused or deluded do not understand that the other five paramitas all evolve from the dana-paramita. Therefore, in practicing the dana-paramita, one also fulfills the practice of the other five paramitas.
Q: For what reason is it called the dana-paramita?
A: "Dana" means the perfection of charity.
Q: What things can be given up in the name of charity?
A: Clinging to thoughts of duality can be given up.
Q: Just what does this mean?
A: It means to give up clinging, in the name of charity, to thoughts of good and evil, existence and non-existence, love and hate, emptiness and fullness, concentration and non-concentration, pure and impure, etc. In the name of charity, give up all of them. Then, and only then, can you attain the stage of the voidness of duality, while, at the same time, letting neither a thought about the voidness of opposites nor about charity arise. This is the genuine practice of the dana-paramita, which is also known as absolute detachment from all phenomena. This is only the voidness of all dharma-nature, which means that always and everywhere is just no-mind. If one can attain the stage of no-mind everywhere, no form will be perceived, because our self-nature is void, containing no form. This, then, is true Reality, which is also called the wonderful form or body of the Tathagata. The Diamond Sutra says: "Those who have abandoned all forms are called Buddhas."
Q: But the Buddha spoke about six paramitas, so how can you reasonably say that one paramita (the dana-paramita) can include the other five?
A: The Sutra of the Benefits of Thinking says: "The Jalavidyadeva spoke to Brahmadeva as follows: 'Bodhisattvas who abandon all defilements are said to have completed the dana-paramita. This is the perfection of charity. If there is the non-arising of a single thought, they are said to have completed the sila-paramita. This the perfection of discipline. If there is no injury to or harm by any dharma, they are said to have completed the ksanti-paramita. This is the perfection of patience. If there is non-attachment to all dharmas, they are said to have completed the virya-paramita. This is the perfection of zeal. If there is non-dwelling on any dharma whatsoever, they are said to have completed the dhyana-paramita. This is the perfection of serenity. If there is no use of sophistry in speaking of any dharma, they are said to have completed the prajna-paramita. This is the perfection of wisdom. These are also known as the six Dharmas without any difference. The first one involves giving; the second one, non-arising of sensation; the third one, the non-arising of thought; the fourth one, being detached from form; the fifth one, non-dwelling in any dharma; and the sixth one, speaking without sophistry. These six paramitas are given different names expediently to meet different needs, but the wonderful principle underlying them all is not different. Thus, if one thing is abandoned, then everything is abandoned; and if one thing does not arise, then nothing whatsoever arises. Deluded people cannot understand this, and even insist that these six paramitas, or methods, are different. Thus, these foolish people, clinging to the variety of methods, revolve endlessly on the Wheel-of-Life-and-Death. Therefore, I urge all you students just to practice the one method of the dana-paramita, which, since it includes completely all dharmas, must, logically, include the other five paramitas. "'
https://www.ymba.org/books/entering-tao ... ightenment
meldpunt seksueel misbruik in boeddhistische gemeenschappen nederland.
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https://meldpuntbg.nl/
Re: New Rigpa letter
Yup.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."
– Longchenpa.
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."
– Longchenpa.
Re: New Rigpa letter
Now you're meditating with gas...Grigoris wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:22 pmhuh.jpgMalcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:09 pmThe post was pretty clear. If one does not have pure vision, don't call out others for their lack of pure vision. If one does, one is a hypocrite, it does not matter if one is a beginner or a high tulku. I made absolutely no assessment of any particular person's mental state. There, now even stupid people reading this thread should be clear about it.
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Re: New Rigpa letter
Wait, so are you saying that if we cut through grasping, our afflictions will naturally liberate? So, is it the nature of things to self-liberate?Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:55 pm
The kleśas are not something to remove from the mind, the wisdoms are not something to add to the mind; the kleśas are themselves self-liberated wisdom when one cuts through grasping even though there is nothing to cut.
Therefore, cutting through grasping is the actual practice of all paths, from hinayāna to atiyoga. The only difference between the yānas, lower to higher, is the coarseness of the grasping one cuts through.
The process I'm taking myself through mentally is that because everything is empty and impermanent, everything is naturally liberating itself, however our grasping keeps our minds from doing the same, even though in a sense it already is liberating itself each moment and we don't correcly perceive (or cognize?) the reality of that.
If I've got that all wrong, then ooops
Re: New Rigpa letter
CTR (In politically incorrect mode) "I visited one of my students in a mental hospital..he was depressed. A lot of the other patients were psychotic, shouting and waving their arms, wildly or muttering.
Don't kid yourself you are any different..you just don't do it out loud".
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: New Rigpa letter
I can 100% identify with that!Simon E. wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:25 pmCTR (In politically incorrect mode) "I visited one of my students in a mental hospital..he was depressed. A lot of the other patients were psychotic, shouting and waving their arms, wildly or muttering.
Don't kid yourself you are any different..you just don't do it out loud".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: New Rigpa letter
Me too...
A thought will trawl through my mind and I will think..'yes Simon that's pretty mad'...
A thought will trawl through my mind and I will think..'yes Simon that's pretty mad'...
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: New Rigpa letter
Things are neither liberated nor unliberated, The nature of self-liberation is total nongrasping.Rinchen Samphel wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:17 amWait, so are you saying that if we cut through grasping, our afflictions will naturally liberate? So, is it the nature of things to self-liberate?Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:55 pm
The kleśas are not something to remove from the mind, the wisdoms are not something to add to the mind; the kleśas are themselves self-liberated wisdom when one cuts through grasping even though there is nothing to cut.
Therefore, cutting through grasping is the actual practice of all paths, from hinayāna to atiyoga. The only difference between the yānas, lower to higher, is the coarseness of the grasping one cuts through.
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Re: New Rigpa letter
I know that quote and resemble it too! Didn't know it was from Trungpa.Grigoris wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:41 pmI can 100% identify with that!Simon E. wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:25 pmCTR (In politically incorrect mode) "I visited one of my students in a mental hospital..he was depressed. A lot of the other patients were psychotic, shouting and waving their arms, wildly or muttering.
Don't kid yourself you are any different..you just don't do it out loud".
Re: New Rigpa letter
He wasn't above plagiarising, perhaps he nicked it.
You know what they say, ordinary folk plagiarise..geniuses steal..or something like that.
You know what they say, ordinary folk plagiarise..geniuses steal..or something like that.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: New Rigpa letter
I think this thread has basically run it's course.
If there is anything new that needs to be added please feel free to contact a staff member.
If there is anything new that needs to be added please feel free to contact a staff member.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde