The idea that there is no higher self or all pervading spiritual reality that can be personally experienced isn't universally shared in Buddhism.Namdrol wrote:What I described to you above is a normative definition shared by all schools of Buddhism grounded in Mahāyāna sutra.Serenity509 wrote:
Are you willing to recognize that your views may not be universally shared within Buddhism?
Interfaith Dialogue
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Re: God in Buddhism
- LastLegend
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Re: God in Buddhism
All is equal...how can there be a higher one?Serenity509 wrote:The idea that there is no higher self or all pervading spiritual reality that can be personally experienced isn't universally shared in Buddhism.Namdrol wrote:What I described to you above is a normative definition shared by all schools of Buddhism grounded in Mahāyāna sutra.Serenity509 wrote:
Are you willing to recognize that your views may not be universally shared within Buddhism?
It’s eye blinking.
Re: God in Buddhism
All Mahāyāna schools maintain that dharmakāya can only seen or experienced by Buddhas. So, if you are a Buddha, you can personally experience dharmakāya. Otherwise, you can only experience nirmanakāya or sambhogakāya.Serenity509 wrote:The idea that there is no higher self or all pervading spiritual reality that can be personally experienced isn't universally shared in Buddhism.Namdrol wrote:What I described to you above is a normative definition shared by all schools of Buddhism grounded in Mahāyāna sutra.Serenity509 wrote:
Are you willing to recognize that your views may not be universally shared within Buddhism?
Some schools give the name "experience of dharmakāya" to an experience of emptiness, but they do not mean the actual resultant dharmakāya, since that latter experience is an experience of total unceasing omniscience that is beyond limitation. That is the experience of buddhas alone.
N
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Re: God in Buddhism
Is there a spiritual reality both within and beyond your individual self?LastLegend wrote: All is equal...how can there be a higher one?
Re: God in Buddhism
Serenity509 wrote:Is there a spiritual reality both within and beyond your individual self?LastLegend wrote: All is equal...how can there be a higher one?
There is no self that is either the same as or separate from the aggretates, so it is an irrelevant question.
Re: God in Buddhism
That's because you don't understand buddhism. Nirvana is not becoming one with Brahman. Brahman is an idea about a being without attributes. Nirvana is beyond concepts or being. And yes, the Buddha was a buddhist, because he served countless Buddhas in the past and followed their teachings. The Buddhist lineage is beginningless.Serenity509 wrote:Was Buddha a Buddhist? Whether one describes the ultimate reality that the devotee becomes one with as Brahman or Nirvana seems to be a matter of semantics and personal preference.adinatha wrote:Poor God. He's all cut up into pieces. LOL. Well you are certainly not the first to think what you think. That's what 1 bil Hindus say too. But you have to understand Buddhism is very different.Serenity509 wrote:I believe that there is a piece of God within us all and the purpose of Enlightenment is to become one with God.
CAW!
- LastLegend
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Re: God in Buddhism
It is neither inside or outside. There is no particular place that it resides in. The mind is empty yet ever present.Serenity509 wrote:Is there a spiritual reality both within and beyond your individual self?LastLegend wrote: All is equal...how can there be a higher one?
It’s eye blinking.
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Re: God in Buddhism
Perhaps I disagree with your understanding of Buddhism.adinatha wrote: That's because you don't understand buddhism.
The historical Buddha was a mortal man who attained Enlightenment, and shared that path to humanity.adinatha wrote: And yes, the Buddha was a buddhist, because he served countless Buddhas in the past and followed their teachings.
Last edited by Serenity509 on Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: God in Buddhism
Well, the video proposes a Creator and I don't believe in that.Serenity509 wrote:What do you think of this video's idea of God?catmoon wrote:I'd like to point out that there are quite a few of us who think there is no God in Buddhism, that Buddha is not God and that even prayer to Buddha is quite problematical.
Pandeism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQRCsbO_rk4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think that many people are opposed to the idea of God because of the image that's been given them from Abrahamic faiths, not because of personal experience.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: God in Buddhism
It might be a matters of semantics. Is there a primordial force that the universe emanates from?catmoon wrote:Well, the video proposes a Creator and I don't believe in that.Serenity509 wrote:What do you think of this video's idea of God?catmoon wrote:I'd like to point out that there are quite a few of us who think there is no God in Buddhism, that Buddha is not God and that even prayer to Buddha is quite problematical.
Pandeism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQRCsbO_rk4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think that many people are opposed to the idea of God because of the image that's been given them from Abrahamic faiths, not because of personal experience.
Re: God in Buddhism
Based on your superficial reading? This material takes a long time to learn.Serenity509 wrote:Perhaps I disagree with your understanding of Buddhism.adinatha wrote: That's because you don't understand buddhism.
That's the view in some Theravada circles. But all agree the Buddha traversed the path for many eons before attaining omniscience. Just before attaining omniscience, the 10th Bhumi bodhisattva is nothing like a normal mortal human. From your perspective, a 10th Bhumi would be god-like in power.Serenity509 wrote:The historical Buddha was a mortal man who attained Enlightenment, and shared that path to humanity.adinatha wrote: And yes, the Buddha was a buddhist, because he served countless Buddhas in the past and followed their teachings.
CAW!
Re: God in Buddhism
In Buddhism, the creation of this universe results from the the collective karma of all sentient beings together. So, no primordial force, unless you are willing to call ignorance that primordial force.Serenity509 wrote:
It might be a matters of semantics. Is there a primordial force that the universe emanates from?
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- conebeckham
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Re: God in Buddhism
No.Serenity509 wrote: It might be a matters of semantics. Is there a primordial force that the universe emanates from?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: God in Buddhism
Nope. No "Force" either.Serenity509 wrote:It might be a matters of semantics. Is there a primordial force that the universe emanates from?
CAW!
- conebeckham
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Re: God in Buddhism
Well, maybe...but calling that force "God" certainly is. Regardless of whether one believes in Abrahamic theism or not.Serenity509 wrote:I don't believe in Abrahamic theism. Believing in a force higher than ourselves isn't automatically theism.conebeckham wrote:Honestly, this isn't much of an issue for Buddhists who are culturally Buddhist or were never part of a monotheistic religion. It's more of an issue for those who identify as Theists, especially monotheists, coming to Buddhism. I would also point out that much has to do with how THEY, rather than "we," define or interpret the meaning of the term. Frankly, for many (most?) monotheists, your ideas of "God" don't square with their understanding or evaluation of the term. God, for many monotheists, is very much "Other."Serenity509 wrote:I think much of your apprehension about the concept of God arises from however you interpret the meaning of the term. Is there a compassionate presence that pervades the universe? Is there a power greater than ourselves? Can we personally experience this presence?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: God in Buddhism
Thank you. Concepts. Well yes.PadmaVonSamba wrote:One of my favorite sayings I have heard:muni wrote:God creates people or people create Gods?
"it is stupid to believe in God, and even stupider to believe in the species that created him"
Last edited by muni on Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“We are each living in our own soap opera. We do not see things as they really are. We see only our interpretations. This is because our minds are always so busy...But when the mind calms down, it becomes clear. This mental clarity enables us to see things as they really are, instead of projecting our commentary on everything.” Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bg9jOYnEUA
Re: God in Buddhism
Hi Namdrol,
There are certain scholars (Thurman, David Gray) that suggest that Vajrayana body mandalas are used to promote personal identity with the Universe/Heruka.
How is this not monism?
There are certain scholars (Thurman, David Gray) that suggest that Vajrayana body mandalas are used to promote personal identity with the Universe/Heruka.
How is this not monism?
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: God in Buddhism
Well, this does not work, for example, the body mandala of heruka merely reflects the idea that the twenty four pithas in Jambudvipa (merely one continent out of eight) exist in the human body of the initiated person. It is more of an interiorized pilgrimage.Enochian wrote:Hi Namdrol,
There are certain scholars (Thurman, David Gray) that suggest that body mandalas, are used to promote personal identity with the Universe i.e. Heruka.
How is this not monism?
N
Re: God in Buddhism
Namdrol wrote:Well, this does not work, for example, the body mandala of heruka merely reflects the idea that the twenty four pithas in Jambudvipa (merely one continent out of eight) exist in the human body of the initiated person. It is more of an interiorized pilgrimage.Enochian wrote:Hi Namdrol,
There are certain scholars (Thurman, David Gray) that suggest that body mandalas, are used to promote personal identity with the Universe i.e. Heruka.
How is this not monism?
N
Ok let me ask you this.
In the finality of Dzogchen, one sees the 5 wisdoms lights everywhere. Everything is the five lights, which are recognized as oneself.
How is this not monism?
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
Re: God in Buddhism
There are five lights, not one, correct? Plus one knows the minds of others correct? So how can this be monism?Enochian wrote:Namdrol wrote:Well, this does not work, for example, the body mandala of heruka merely reflects the idea that the twenty four pithas in Jambudvipa (merely one continent out of eight) exist in the human body of the initiated person. It is more of an interiorized pilgrimage.Enochian wrote:Hi Namdrol,
There are certain scholars (Thurman, David Gray) that suggest that body mandalas, are used to promote personal identity with the Universe i.e. Heruka.
How is this not monism?
N
Ok let me ask you this.
In the finality of Dzogchen, one sees the 5 wisdoms lights everywhere. Everything is the five lights, which are recognized as oneself.
How is this not monism?
N