Yantra Yoga compared to...
- bryandavis
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 pm
Yantra Yoga compared to...
Greetings all,
ChNNR states he learned and received clarification on yantra yoga from his uncle, and this is the tradition practiced at adzom gar.
My question is why is yy so different when compared to all the other trulkhor systems?
Every other trulkhor system Ive been exposed to or have seen bares some resemblance. But yy is of a different skeleton so to speak.
I also practice yy, so im not juat asking to ask. Im very curious as to how this one trulkhor stream seems to have maintained such a unique aproach.
Bryan.
ChNNR states he learned and received clarification on yantra yoga from his uncle, and this is the tradition practiced at adzom gar.
My question is why is yy so different when compared to all the other trulkhor systems?
Every other trulkhor system Ive been exposed to or have seen bares some resemblance. But yy is of a different skeleton so to speak.
I also practice yy, so im not juat asking to ask. Im very curious as to how this one trulkhor stream seems to have maintained such a unique aproach.
Bryan.
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
I would also like to hear more about this linage
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
There is an obvious parallel to modern transnational yoga's asanas in YY, which indicates to me that YY is not trulkhor in the traditional sense. When you say you were exposed to other trulkhor systems, do you mean like on YouTube?
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
The Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
- bryandavis
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Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Mostly youtube, vimeo, reddit forums, dreams, cartoons etc.. then a bit from long term retreat, a few drupons, some freinds who have done three year retreat.
Oh, and my visit to copper colored mountain.
- bryandavis
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Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Malcom,Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 pmThe Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
What dates do you put the root text of the trulkhor nyida khajor in the big yantra book?
- conebeckham
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Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
I'm not too familiar with CNNR's system, other than a few videos I've seen, but in general are there the sorts of "Bebs" (forceful drops) found in Six Yogas Trulkhor in the Yantra systems, or in Dzogchen systems in general?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
What exactly is different?
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
No clue.bryandavis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:41 pmMalcom,Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 pmThe Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
What dates do you put the root text of the trulkhor nyida khajor in the big yantra book?
- bryandavis
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 pm
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
There is a whole series in YY where beps are the ending movement of a sequence, though not crashing down jumps.conebeckham wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:10 pm I'm not too familiar with CNNR's system, other than a few videos I've seen, but in general are there the sorts of "Bebs" (forceful drops) found in Six Yogas Trulkhor in the Yantra systems, or in Dzogchen systems in general?
Then in the exercise for tummo the jumpimg lotus bep is used.
Also a concise / all inclusive series for developing heat.
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Do you know why ChNN felt OK to teach trulkhor openly?Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 pmThe Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
He did so to see if people would be ready for his teachings in general. He was teaching Yantra in the early 70's in Italy, some years before he began to teach Dzogchen.Snowbear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:18 pmDo you know why ChNN felt OK to teach trulkhor openly?Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 pmThe Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Very interesting.Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 pmThe Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
I have wondered about the similarities to "transnational yoga" as well. Not just the asana, but especially the names of the asana which (if some modern scholarship is to be believed) are new. It can be jarring to read "Yoga Body" by Mark Singleton, for example, and then look at some of the asana sequences....
...not that it really makes a difference in practice, and I mostly do the warm-ups and three "preliminary" sequences anyways.
Adzom Drukpa was alive during the formation of "transnational yoga," is it possible that he had contact with Indian Yoga practitioners?
I read somewhere (and I don't remember where, and I've looked) that part of Iyengar's break from Krishnamacharya was when the latter randomly demonstrated some Tibetan yoga to an interviewer. Iyengar was very offended that this would shown to a random person when he, Iyengar, had never even heard of it; this after Iyengar being one of the top students for many years.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
I understand it to be prep for completion stage practices in Kagyu, and done privately in a closed area. Is it customary to teach it that early and openly in Dzogchen?Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:12 pmHe did so to see if people would be ready for his teachings in general. He was teaching Yantra in the early 70's in Italy, some years before he began to teach Dzogchen.Snowbear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:18 pmDo you know why ChNN felt OK to teach trulkhor openly?Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:59 pm
The Lamdre Yantra system also has a system of 32 asanas that greatly resemble what we call Hathayoga. It's basic texts were codified in the 12th century.
YY is yantra in the traditional sense, actually. Whether it actually comes from Vairocana is a historical claim I cannot validate, but there are separate lineages of Bairo Trulkhor in Tibet, not just ChNN's. It definitely comes from Adzom Drukpa.
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Dzogchen is the highest teaching of those systems that have it, I don't think that it's traditionally customary to teach it openly and early at all. That is mostly new to our modern times.Snowbear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:40 pmI understand it to be prep for completion stage practices in Kagyu, and done privately in a closed area. Is it customary to teach it that early and openly in Dzogchen?
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Bairo Trulkhor does not require a creation stage, though at one time it may have been associated with Śrī Heruka (aka Yang dag) since it ultimately comes from Huṃkara.
M
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Does anyone practice Bairo in the context of completion stage today or is it for the most part a stand-alone set of exercises that anyone can do?
- bryandavis
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Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
If you are practicing this with out DI or empowerment, with no view etc, then it would fall out of the completion stage spectrum.Snowbear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:59 pmDoes anyone practice Bairo in the context of completion stage today or is it for the most part a stand-alone set of exercises that anyone can do?
If you have intoduction , empowerment, and the view that comes with those things... then when you engage in trulkhor of any sort, then it must be completion stage if that is the term being refrenced.
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
Bairo Trulkhor also has various pranayāmas, and a kind of tummo. But no creation stage.Snowbear wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:59 pmDoes anyone practice Bairo in the context of completion stage today or is it for the most part a stand-alone set of exercises that anyone can do?
Re: Yantra Yoga compared to...
I would not take at face value any rumours about modern hatha yoga. It’s also widely said, and not implausible given circumstantial evidence, that Krishnamacharya didn’t like Iyengar much, taught him very little, and that Iyengar made a lot of his style up. Similarly Jois is supposed to have developed his style from a manual that his guru directed him to read, but which nobody else ever saw, and on occasion he would laugh when people asked about it...the paper trail for Indian physical yogas is a little thinclimb-up wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:49 pm
I read somewhere (and I don't remember where, and I've looked) that part of Iyengar's break from Krishnamacharya was when the latter randomly demonstrated some Tibetan yoga to an interviewer. Iyengar was very offended that this would shown to a random person when he, Iyengar, had never even heard of it; this after Iyengar being one of the top students for many years.