Response to Bernie

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pemachophel
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by pemachophel » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:28 pm

"Oh, I am not saying that it should not be kept within the confines of initiation. But the word "secret" in Dzogchen and Vajrayāna in general merely means that these principles are not known in lower vehicles, not that they are confidential like a top secret file."

the three teachers i'm thinking about kept dzogchen more secret than your description. no dzogchen until ngon-dro completed. one wouldn't even use the word rigpa.

different strokes...

but the older i get, the more i agree with and appreciate this approach.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Malcolm
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Malcolm » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:36 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:28 pm
"Oh, I am not saying that it should not be kept within the confines of initiation. But the word "secret" in Dzogchen and Vajrayāna in general merely means that these principles are not known in lower vehicles, not that they are confidential like a top secret file."

the three teachers i'm thinking about kept dzogchen more secret than your description. no dzogchen until ngon-dro completed. one wouldn't even use the word rigpa.
Pretty hard to avoid using the word rig pa in a Dzogchen ngpondro.

Gathering accumulations and purification is a good thing. Different teachers have different approaches to how these things are bestowed. People have different karma, different experiences, and need different approaches. There is no one size fits all when it comes to Dharma.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Quay
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Quay » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:09 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:36 pm
Pretty hard to avoid using the word rig pa in a Dzogchen ngpondro.

Gathering accumulations and purification is a good thing. Different teachers have different approaches to how these things are bestowed. People have different karma, different experiences, and need different approaches. There is no one size fits all when it comes to Dharma.
And what incredible good news all that is. :)

I think one of the difficulties many students of Dharma that were raised in the west (Europe, the US, etc.) is that for quite a long time people were taught that it comes from above, there are rules, and if you obey them good things happen and if you transgress them eternally bad things happen. But the no one-size idea means it's coming not from above but from the ground up. According to the needs of each sentient being not the needs of a "god" who is apparently cranky if everything does not go his way & consequently only one set of rules for everyone.

I am happy DJKR is able to wade right into the current mess. His answers will not be for everyone but they will certainly serve many and make quite a difference for them. As it should be.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:34 am

Let a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend!
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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weitsicht
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:33 am

Man, we have to get this "Thumbs up" feature introduced into this forum.
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:57 pm
Punya wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:50 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:23 pm
Anytime he needs my advice... :smile:
I'm sorry to tell you Simon, but it probably wasn't your advice that prompted this. :D

I wouldn't be so sure, Punya. I've long suspected that Simone's eloquent posts carry a great deal of weight with many of today's important lamas.
I would have been quite curious about how a Gucci robe looks on you, Simon. :tongue:

Is there a rule about the max. value a dharma robe should have?
Is merit increased though an expensive robe signifying the vast cherish to the Dharma?
Is there such thing as the Golden Fleece in Buddhist Mythology?
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

Simon E.
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:56 am

I don't know the answers to your questions weitsicht.
But I was making a sideways reference to Rupert Murdoch's attempted put down of HH the Dalai Lama as an 'An old political monk shuffling around in Gucci sandals'.
Of course, at the time Murdoch was married to Wendi Deng who was and apparently still is, a tool of the P.R.C.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

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Malcolm
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Malcolm » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:25 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:56 am

...Wendi Deng who was and apparently still is, a tool of the P.R.C.
And a close friend of Ivanka Trump.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Simon E.
Posts: 5637
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:27 pm

Apparently so. One day the biography of this remarkable and sinister woman will be told..but probably not in her lifetime.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

PeterC
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:02 am

Most of what there is to know about DWD is already in the public domain. If one can genuinely wish her happiness and the causes of happiness, then one is a pretty good practitioner.

“Paid agent” is a stretch, though - “opportunistic hustler” is probably a better description, her goal has throughout been increasing her own wealth and status, everything else was secondary.

Simon E.
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:24 am

A) I strongly suspect that you are unaware of the full picture.

B) I am not a good practitioner. So I will leave it there rather than taint those of you that are.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

humble.student
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by humble.student » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:14 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:34 am
Let a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend!
... because that didn't end badly, right?

PeterC
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:57 am

Simon E. wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:24 am
A) I strongly suspect that you are unaware of the full picture.

B) I am not a good practitioner. So I will leave it there rather than taint those of you that are.
Hi

A) that’s not a discussion we can meaningfully get into here, so let’s leave it at that

B) nor am I...

Simon E.
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Simon E. » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:08 pm

:namaste:
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm

I wonder if any good practitioners actually post on this forum? Image
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Josef
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Josef » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:42 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm
I wonder if any good practitioners actually post on this forum? Image
What's a good practitioner?
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:14 pm

Josef wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:42 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm
I wonder if any good practitioners actually post on this forum? Image
What's a good practitioner?

Well, it appears that my view on these matters is not welcome here, so perhaps others can comment.


:namaste:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Josef
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by Josef » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:49 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:14 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:42 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm
I wonder if any good practitioners actually post on this forum? Image
What's a good practitioner?

Well, it appears that my view on these matters is not welcome here, so perhaps others can comment.


:namaste:
I dont think it's within anyones purview to comment on the quality of others as practitioners.
So you're not alone.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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weitsicht
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Location: Right Here and Now

Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:44 am

Josef wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:49 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:14 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:42 pm

What's a good practitioner?
Well, it appears that my view on these matters is not welcome here, so perhaps others can comment.
I dont think it's within anyones purview to comment on the quality of others as practitioners.
So you're not alone.
Who a good practitioner is?
I think we all are little red riding hood - wandering about the big big forest, relying on ourselves, and trying not to encounter the evil wolf. Just hoping for seeing lovely granny. A good practitioner collects the good things along the paths -flowers, apples, edible mushrooms. And if he finds something less good, he (she) just drops it right at its spot (I think in Tibetan it says yuk sha -leave it).

How do I know what is good, what less? -Intuition, authenticity, strong connectedness of body with mind? I dunno.
How can I strengthen that? look, see, learn. Also the longer I walk the path the more I think that "remembering" is a quality. But again, who am I to know...

It fills me with so much pain so see the ex-Rigpa people ranting and raving. They seek objects to hate. So much opportunity for their ego to bloat. They are so worried about broken samaya and vajra hell. DJKR's ego made a good hater-object.
The whatnow727 became a new chat-log, infested by a varied kind of energies and agitations.
The organizers of whatnow initiated to split the groups into the ones who need further exchange on Rigpa and need assistance of any kind (Dharma Companions Facebook Group) and those successfully just having let go and continue on the path in some different way (Dharma Protectors Facebook Group)
https://whatnow727.wordpress.com/2018/0 ... -progress/

I'm whishing them all healing. That the obstacle becomes something helpful on their path.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

PeterC
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by PeterC » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:19 pm

weitsicht wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:44 am
It fills me with so much pain so see the ex-Rigpa people ranting and raving. They seek objects to hate. So much opportunity for their ego to bloat. They are so worried about broken samaya and vajra hell.
You offer kind words for them after this part that i quote, but what you say here sounds a lot like blaming the victims. They deserve our sympathy and support and not our criticism.

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weitsicht
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Re: Response to Bernie

Post by weitsicht » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:00 am

@PeterC, the blaming part is your projection.

I just see causes and consequences which I develop compassion for. That is all I wanted to share.
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

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