nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

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nichiren-123
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nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by nichiren-123 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 pm

So I get the two truths theory formulated by Nagarjuna. There is ultimate truth (i.e. insight into emptiness) and then there is conventional truth, which, which useful, is ultimately false. So there is a sort of hierarchy: ultimate truth > conventional truth

But then in in tientai there are three truths: emptiness, conventional truth and the middle way. These three are not only equal but also imply the other two. Now I've been reading tientai for months and I still don't get anything I've said in this paragraph...

I don't get anything about the threefold truth. I can make sense of the two truths but not the threefold truth...?

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Coëmgenu
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Re: nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by Coëmgenu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:01 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 pm
So I get the two truths theory formulated by Nagarjuna. There is ultimate truth (i.e. insight into emptiness) and then there is conventional truth, which, which useful, is ultimately false. So there is a sort of hierarchy: ultimate truth > conventional truth

But then in in tientai there are three truths: emptiness, conventional truth and the middle way. These three are not only equal but also imply the other two. Now I've been reading tientai for months and I still don't get anything I've said in this paragraph...

I don't get anything about the threefold truth. I can make sense of the two truths but not the threefold truth...?
The non-differentiation between samsara and nirvana of Ven Nagarjuna is treated as it's own "truth" in Tiantai. A "third".
नस्वातो नापिपरतो नद्वाभ्यां नाप्यहेतुतः उत्पन्ना जातु विद्यन्ते भावाः क्वचन केचन
There absolutely are no things, nowhere and none, that arise anew, neither out of themselves, nor out of non-self, nor out of both, nor at random.
सर्वं तथ्यं न वा तथ्यं तथ्यं चातथ्यम् एव च नैवातथ्यं नैव तथ्यम् एतद् बुद्धानुशासनम्
All is so, or all is not so, both so and not so, neither so nor not so. This is the Buddha's teaching.

一切實非實亦實亦非實
非實非非實是名諸佛法

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takso
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Re: nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by takso » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:08 pm

nichiren-123 wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:02 pm
I don't get anything about the threefold truth. I can make sense of the two truths but not the threefold truth...?
It simply means one plus one equals to three... :smile:

TRUTH 1 - Ultimate Truth (an insight into one side of the coin).
TRUTH 2 - Conventional Truth (an insight into another side of the coin).
TRUTH 3 - Middle Way Truth (an insight into the two sides of the same coin concurrently).

The wise Buddha has laid emphasis that one should see in all angles of things or matters while pursuing the ultimate truth. Without it, any conclusions made out of one’s observation would not be balanced or in a wholesome nature. In Buddhism, wholesome would mean in totality of perspective (skillful) and unwholesome would mean in non-totality of perspective (unskillful). There is no holy or sinful thought or act in the eyes of the Buddha.

In fact, the Buddha has recommended Middle Path as an ideal approach when addressing a problem. Middle Path is all about focusing on core, neutral, balance and upright. It means to investigate and break through the core of life and all things without any attitudes of favouritism. Any investigations must commence based on unbiased grounds i.e. on neutral and upright positions. In other words, one needs to investigate the problem from various angles, analyse the findings, understand the truth thoroughly, and find a reasonable conclusion.

So, the TRUTH 3 lies within the so-called 'reasonable conclusion'.

:anjali:
~ Ignorance triumphs when wise men do nothing ~

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Queequeg
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Re: nagarjuna two truths to tientai threefold truth. How?

Post by Queequeg » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:04 pm

See Swanson's Tientai Philosophy and Ng's Tientai and Early Madhyamika.

Also, you might find Jikai's notes and the discussion in the MoHo Chih Kuan discussion thread interesting.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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