Sleep Awareness?

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Motova
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Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:37 pm

Can we be aware while sleeping but not dreaming?

Thank you.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Vasana
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Vasana » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:52 pm

Yes. But you need pretty stable samadhi and non distracted unwavering lucidity in waking life to have a chance at night. That and having been introduced to the nature of your mind by a qualified teacher. Thankfully lucid dreaming is something anyone can learn to practice in the meantime.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Motova
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:16 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:52 pm
Yes. But you need pretty stable samadhi and non distracted unwavering lucidity in waking life to have a chance at night. That and having been introduced to the nature of your mind by a qualified teacher. Thankfully lucid dreaming is something anyone can learn to practice in the meantime.
Are you saying that one has to be recognizing the nature of mind to be aware of sleep?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

KoolAid900
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by KoolAid900 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:29 am

Awareness during deep sleep is possible, the 3rd empowerment (mind/Dharmakaya) is associated with clearing the obscuration to this awareness. I think the practice of clear light from the 6 yogas of Naropa may go deeper into this.

Also, I wonder if it would be possible with really strong shamatha practice.

Motova
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:14 am

KoolAid900 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:29 am

Also, I wonder if it would be possible with really strong shamatha practice.
This is what I would like to know as well.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Miroku
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Miroku » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:23 am

I think it is possible only in case of recognizing the nature of mind and being somewhat stable in it. If I am correct it is called natural light. Also don't think it is possible with really strong shamatha, shamatha can help you with lucid dreams, but this is a different league. For more info I'd recommend ChNN's dream yoga and practice of natural light or Tenzin Wangyals' tibetan yogas of sleep.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

Motova
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Does anyone have any citations?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:33 pm

Motova wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:57 pm
Does anyone have any citations?
We can experience the clear light all night, this mean we don't dream but do a atiyoga practice instead, but it is not easy as to push a button and make it occur. Explanations can be found in The Cycle of the Day and Night and other texts.
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Motova
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:19 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:33 pm
Motova wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:57 pm
Does anyone have any citations?
We can experience the clear light all night, this mean we don't dream but do a atiyoga practice instead, but it is not easy as to push a button and make it occur. Explanations can be found in The Cycle of the Day and Night and other texts.
Do any suttas or sutras say yes or no on sleep awareness?

Do any tantras say yes or no on sleep awareness?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:30 pm

Motova wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:37 pm
Can we be aware while sleeping but not dreaming?

Thank you.
Sleep practice of resting in clear light is a more 'advanced' practice than working with dream lucidity. I have never remotely acheived it, just relaying what I've been taught. There are practices for just this.

I'm not good at it but the one valiable thing I've learned is: If you can notice yourself becoming distracted in meditation and see the process of confusion/distraction , it helps, as is this is exactly what happens when you enter sleep. I'm under the impression that stability in meditation practice -period- is proportional to one's ability to do this, and when I learned a practice, we were warned that success was unlikely for a while.

I'm coming to think It's a bit of a false dichotomy to separate shamatha/vipaysana and resting in the nature of mind beyond the beginner level. So here if you have great success in either, my impression is that your capability to find the sleep of clear light is improved.
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:21 pm

Motova wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:19 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:33 pm
Motova wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:57 pm
Does anyone have any citations?
We can experience the clear light all night, this mean we don't dream but do a atiyoga practice instead, but it is not easy as to push a button and make it occur. Explanations can be found in The Cycle of the Day and Night and other texts.
Do any suttas or sutras say yes or no on sleep awareness?

Do any tantras say yes or no on sleep awareness?
in the tantra i mentioned is asumed that you already know -have experiencied- that yes.

if you are part of the transmision of the state of ati and if you have lung of the Guruyoga of the white A you can have this knowledge by doing a retreat dedicated to it. it is not something from other world if you apply it in the way your Guru has told you to.

also practicing shamata and or vipassana it can occur during the day, while you are awake, but is possible and very probable that instead of that you only match into a kind of absorption. in any case mastering this called "basic" practices (i really don't think shamata or vipassana are basic) enchances a lot -and even would say makes possible, make sense of- the "advanced" practices. afaik, in the eye of ati, what says JD is true calm state and movement (knowledges of applying shamata and vipassana) are aspects of the same state, is impossible to separate them.

however, shamata and vipassana have different meanings and way of application in the renounciation, transformation and self-liberation-(of phenomena) paths, so there are some -fundamental- considerations about them that ussually are not explained.

sadly i don't remember or i don't know if according to sutras what you ask is possible.

do i'm saying much?
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TaTa
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by TaTa » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:35 am

You can be aware of sleep and it does not necessary mean that you are resting in rigpa

Motova
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:35 pm

:popcorn:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Motova
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by Motova » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:41 pm

:zzz:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

KoolAid900
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Re: Sleep Awareness?

Post by KoolAid900 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:05 am

TaTa wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:35 am
You can be aware of sleep and it does not necessary mean that you are resting in rigpa
That's what I suspect as well. Very deep shamatha like maybe the dhyanas, which isn't rigpa but quite an accomplishment, would seem likely to involve enough stability and awareness to allow one to be aware of the subtle awareness present in deep sleep.

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