Interfaith Dialogue

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Enochian
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Enochian » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:33 pm

Serenity,

Please download this:


http://buddhisttorrents.blogspot.com/20 ... ction.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


It describes Hindu philosophy as well.

The most important section is the one on Mādhyamaka, since that it the bottom line understanding of all Buddhism, except for the goal vehicle Dzogchen.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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LastLegend
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by LastLegend » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:47 pm

The inherent nature of the mind is empty, because it's empty it can take many manifestations. To name it a Self or High Power is to give it attributes but it's nature is empty and is not limited by anything. To give it attributes is to create an identification which inherently lack of since it's empty. The reason why we here because at some point we had a thought of self due to ignorance...so use the Buddhist terms such as Buddha Nature or mind, not Self or Higher Power.

But if you truly understand the teachings, it is neither Self nor Non-Self, it is neither self nor non-self, yet it lack nothing, truly empty but full of all. So to give attributes is to limit it to those attributes only, and this is so called individual self we have. Buddhism seeks to liberate from this individual self which we have mistaken for so long.

Gods or God is with particular attributes, truly empty mind (Buddha) is without particular attributes but lack nothing.

To give it a name is to give it a form. Name and Form from dependent origination. But it's empty so neither form or non-form. No duality yet not lack of anything. I hope you will get.

It's not easy to digest sometimes.
Last edited by LastLegend on Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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adinatha
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:54 pm

Buddha is my stomach. Please Buddha please please be happy.
CAW!

Enochian
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Enochian » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:55 pm

LastLegend wrote:The inherent nature of the mind is empty, because it's empty it can take many manifestations. To name it a Self or High Power is to give it attributes but it's nature is empty and is not limited by anything. To give it attributes is to create an identification which inherently lack of since it's empty. The reason why we here because at some point we had a thought of self due to ignorance...so use the Buddhist terms such as Buddha Nature or mind, not Self or Higher Power.

But if you truly understand the teachings, it is neither Self nor Non-Self, it is neither self nor non-self, yet it lack nothing, truly empty but full of all. So to give attributes is to limit it to those attributes only, and this is so called individual self we have. Buddhism seeks to liberate from this individual self which we have mistaken for so long.

Gods or God is with attributes, truly empty mind (Buddha) is without attributes but lack nothing.

To give it a name is to give it a form. Name and Form from dependent origination. But it's empty so neither form or non-form. No dualities. I hope you will get.

It's not easy to digest sometimes.

This is absolute garbage. You also need to read the Mādhyamaka section in that book I posted.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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LastLegend
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by LastLegend » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:59 pm

Enochian wrote:
This is absolute garbage. You also need to read the Mādhyamaka section in that book I posted.
Where are you from?
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Enochian
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Enochian » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:01 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Enochian wrote:
This is absolute garbage. You also need to read the Mādhyamaka section in that book I posted.
Where are you from?

What are you threatening me?

Don't take it bad, I'm just trying to help you.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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LastLegend
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by LastLegend » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:04 pm

Enochian wrote:

What are you threatening me?

Don't take it bad, I'm just trying to help you.
NO, I just want to kick your ass back to India.

Help yourself first, look at your own signature
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Enochian
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Enochian » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:09 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Help yourself first, look at your own signature

What does Mādhyamaka have to do with Vajrayana?

Yes Mādhyamaka forms the basis for Vajrayana.

I don't need to be a Vajrayana practitioner to be a buddhist bro.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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LastLegend
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Location: Washington DC

Re: God in Buddhism

Post by LastLegend » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:14 pm

Enochian wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
Help yourself first, look at your own signature

What does Mādhyamaka have to do with Vajrayana?

Yes Mādhyamaka forms the basis for Vajrayana.

I don't need to be a Vajrayana practitioner to be a buddhist bro.
I like masala chicken.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:34 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:It exists inside the mind? Where exactly?
:namaste:
not "where" but "when".
Thoughts don't exist in space, only in time....and then, not for long.
As soon as you log off of this topic and go order a pizza, at that time you neither believe in god or don't believe in god. You believe in pizza.
Last edited by PadmaVonSamba on Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:36 pm

Namdrol wrote: People believe all kinds of crazy shit and call it "buddhism".

N
I believe in all kinds of buddhism, and call it crazy shit.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

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adinatha
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:10 pm

LastLegend wrote:
Enochian wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
Help yourself first, look at your own signature

What does Mādhyamaka have to do with Vajrayana?

Yes Mādhyamaka forms the basis for Vajrayana.

I don't need to be a Vajrayana practitioner to be a buddhist bro.
I like masala chicken.
You are such a frak ass.
CAW!

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LastLegend
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by LastLegend » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:14 pm

adinatha wrote:
You are such a frak ass.
Thanks. We still cool? You can me rice if you want. But I prefer Pho you know.

This is chicken pho
Image
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Serenity509
Posts: 800
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Location: United States

Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Serenity509 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:39 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Serenity509 wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote: A badly put together jigsaw of traditional and pseudo-scientific views blended with 12 step theory which does justice to none of the three. Hardly evidence of a higher power in Buddhism.
Do you have an objection to Buddhists being in the twelve step program?
People are free, they can do what they like, including calling all kinds of crazy shit "buddhism".
The twelve step program has saved millions from addiction, including Buddhists. I wouldn't call that "crazy shit." In a forum that claims to be Buddhist, can we please follow Buddha's example in how we speak to each other?

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adinatha
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:46 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
adinatha wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Somewhere I read the following:
"All kayas complete, unique, indescribable, anything possible."

I especially like the "anything possible" part.
You know why that is? Because of emptiness.
Yes! I am not disagreeing with you that, depending on how one is defining stuff, that god and no god are the same.
I am saying that belief in God and Belief in no god are the same, and are the same for the same reasons, and because of this, a person who says they believe in a god and a person who says they do not believe in a god may, ultimately, believe in the same things, only one person puts a face on it, and the other does not.
take for example,
the following:

>^._. ^<

The atheist sees a series of punctuations, and the theist sees a cat. but they both see the same thing.
I totally get what you are saying, I put up some gestalts to demonstrate this. But what I was talking about was the enlightened mind. In your example, if I see punctuations and you see a cat, though we are both looking at the same thing, we are both in ignorance. If we see the seer and see emptiness, there are neither punctuations nor a cat. It is a mere appearance of form, light and eye.
CAW!

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adinatha
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:56 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
adinatha wrote:You think Brahman is the ultimate reality of Godhead. In Mahayana, ultimate reality is basically a void, not a sentient being called God.
Is Brahman ultimately a void? Is the personal aspect of Brahman an illusion to accommodate human needs?
In Vedanta Brahman is not a void. It is infinite consciousness. There is also a concept of parabrahman which is nothingness. Both of these are within samsara from a buddhist standpoint.
Serenity509 wrote:
adinatha wrote:Buddhism is atheistic.
Buddhism might be nontheistic or agnostic, but did Buddha deny the existence of a supreme force or higher power?
Yup.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
CAW!

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adinatha
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:58 pm

LastLegend wrote:
adinatha wrote:
You are such a frak ass.
Thanks. We still cool? You can me rice if you want. But I prefer Pho you know.

This is chicken pho
Image
Now I'm hungry.
CAW!

Enochian
Posts: 364
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Enochian » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:03 pm

Serenity509 wrote:In a forum that claims to be Buddhist

Exactly.

Buddhists don't mind debating theists, but why don't you read the Mādhyamaka section of the book I gave you first, so you can understand what we are saying.

Because right now, you don't seem to understand that:

BUDDHISM = DEPENDENT ORIGINATION

This is true from Theravada to Dzogchen
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

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adinatha
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by adinatha » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:11 pm

Serenity509 wrote:In a forum that claims to be Buddhist, can we please follow Buddha's example in how we speak to each other?
We're just buddhists over here talking buddhist shit. Everyday somebody from some other tradition comes over here loaded with opinions. You won't find buddhists going around telling christians or hindus what to think. It's impossible. Buddhism takes a long time to train in. there's no way to to drop off a pamphlet. We are dealing with the subtlest reaches of knowability and reality. When folks like you come around we try our best with the fewest possible words to get you to understand that your opinions based on a cursory reading are wasting our time. If you want to have something valuable to share, you will needs some years of intense study.
CAW!

Serenity509
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Re: God in Buddhism

Post by Serenity509 » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:16 pm

adinatha wrote:You won't find buddhists going around telling christians or hindus what to think.
When did I tell you what to think? It's a fact that many Buddhists have turned to the twelve step program for help. "Higher power" or "a power greater than ourselves" can be defined so broadly, even metaphorically, as to include your practice of the Dharma, the compassion of a bodhisattva, or the universe itself. It's not my problem if you can only imagine applying the term "higher power" to Abrahamic faith.

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