Why samsara exists

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Jeff H
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Jeff H » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:25 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:24 am
Samsara - where awakening happens ;)
Samsara - where awakening needs to happen. :cry:
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:21 pm

Samsara exists because you haven't realized Nirvana ?
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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:29 am
Yes, of course we don’t experience the world as total bliss, but I understand the quote, “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss", as pointing to what we are, not what we experience.
Is what we are and what we experience two different things? So where is this thing that I am, and if what I am is not doing the experiencing, then who is?
I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.

How do you understand the underlined statement:
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:18 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm
I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.
So what are you?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm

Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know.

But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Snowbear » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:33 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm
Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know.

But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
Are you experiencing bliss now, clyde?

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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:34 pm

clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:31 pm
But you haven’t shared your understanding of “all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss.”
Conventionally, I could answer that question in a myriad of ways; ultimately, I don’t know. ;)

That's a conversation stopper if ever I have seen one! :smile: I think I'll be using it more often.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

DharmaN00b
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by DharmaN00b » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:58 pm

all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
Thomas Jefferson

I think this says at least a little bit about engaged Buddhism (living Dharma)

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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:42 am

Grigoris; Yes, I see your point about my answer. It wasn’t meant in that way.

This evening I thought about your question, “So what are you?”

I am an old, broken wayfarer.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:30 am

clyde wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:42 am
This evening I thought about your question, “So what are you?”

I am an old, broken wayfarer.
And yet utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss! :smile:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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weitsicht
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by weitsicht » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:58 pm

@Arcturus My teacher uses to say "why is this, why is that? There cannot be more useless questions."
I don't mean to disdain you by saying that rather than trying to shift your focus.

Just see for yourself what you are, what the essence of it is. Whether you understand the notion of samsara fully or about what you may have doubts. Put anything in relation with the perceiver rather than entering a theoretical debate.

Other than that I advise studying the initial verses of the Evocation of Samantabhadra ref. also my footer
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx8ftzvmr79iv ... y.pdf?dl=0
or further audio explanations http://eifelaudio.simplybeing.co.uk/201 ... tumn-2017/
clyde wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:05 pm

I am not separate from my experience, but I am not what I experience.
Well, there is this text by Jigme Lingpa so dear to me with a sentence I still cannot fully penetrate:
Be what knows the arising

how about that, @Clyde?

(http://unfetteredmind.org/revelations-o ... sent-good/)
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

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clyde
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by clyde » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:01 am

My nature is great completion.
Jigme Lingpa
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

Varis
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Varis » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:59 am

There is no greater purpose for the existence of samsara.

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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:31 am

clyde wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:01 am
My nature is great completion.
Jigme Lingpa
Which again begs the question: Is your nature separate to samsaric existence? The same as samsaric existence? Both? Neither?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Malcolm
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Malcolm » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:07 pm

I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:16 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:07 pm
I don't know why there is all this discussion. The answer to why samsara exists is that sentient beings are subject to grasping a self that does not exist as real.
So we just stand there like an idiot when a truck is comming ?
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm

I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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Aryjna
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Aryjna » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:34 pm

Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm
I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
:D Are you enjoying it now?

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:43 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:34 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm
I just thought of another one...

Samsara exists, so we can enjoy it, then it becomes NIRVANA. ?
:D Are you enjoying it now?
Yes
I'm having lunch.....
And sitting in a palace
With a king...

I am the lucky servant
The Universe flowing through my veins...stars falling from my eyes......rocks rolling in my head...lemon juice dripping down my chin....

https://drunklotus.blog

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Grigoris
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Re: Why samsara exists

Post by Grigoris » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:11 pm

Can we please get back on topic people? Thanks.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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