Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

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Virgo
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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by Virgo » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:09 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:59 am

That's right. I was quite surprised when a Yungdrung Bon teacher placed Ngondro first. Not sure why but I had thought, like ChNN, they may be 'DI first' in approach. For several reasons I didn't pursue it after speaking with him.
Well they were influenced by gradualism as well by the time that corresponds to probably sometime just after the Middle Ages in the Western World.

Kevin...

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:23 pm

I can't find it, but I thought that there was a scripture that said Buddhism will disappear when Buddhist monastics disappear.

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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haha
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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by haha » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:38 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:23 pm
I can't find it, but I thought that there was a scripture that said Buddhism will disappear when Buddhist monastics disappear.
DS
Recently someone asked Bhikkhu Bodhi in his discourse on Anguttar Nikaya, he mentioned two things. One is related with bhikku not following the vinaya rules and another is disappearance of satipathana sutta teaching.
From Ani Sutta from SN:

Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained.

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."
There is a Jataka story about the King’s dream which I can’t remember properly right now. (Sakyamuni interpreted those dreams).

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:49 am

Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:59 am

That's right. I was quite surprised when a Yungdrung Bon teacher placed Ngondro first. Not sure why but I had thought, like ChNN, they may be 'DI first' in approach. For several reasons I didn't pursue it after speaking with him.
The Nyingma approach, at least with my root lamas (not counting ChNN, who I also count as a root lama), is to place emphasis on ngondro first, but while concurrently transmitting Dzogchen and instructing in Dzogchen practice within the context of ngondro from the start. Even when they teach us sutra, Dzogchen ends up worked in. Dzogchen permeates everything from the start.

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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by Mantrik » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:50 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:49 am
Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:59 am

That's right. I was quite surprised when a Yungdrung Bon teacher placed Ngondro first. Not sure why but I had thought, like ChNN, they may be 'DI first' in approach. For several reasons I didn't pursue it after speaking with him.
The Nyingma approach, at least with my root lamas (not counting ChNN, who I also count as a root lama), is to place emphasis on ngondro first, but while concurrently transmitting Dzogchen and instructing in Dzogchen practice within the context of ngondro from the start. Even when they teach us sutra, Dzogchen ends up worked in. Dzogchen permeates everything from the start.
That's good to know.

With the Yungdrung guy I saw the only thing that permeated everything from the start was money......and lots of it.
http://www.khyung.com

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oldbob
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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by oldbob » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:42 am

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:50 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:49 am
Mantrik wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:59 am

That's right. I was quite surprised when a Yungdrung Bon teacher placed Ngondro first. Not sure why but I had thought, like ChNN, they may be 'DI first' in approach. For several reasons I didn't pursue it after speaking with him.
The Nyingma approach, at least with my root lamas (not counting ChNN, who I also count as a root lama), is to place emphasis on ngondro first, but while concurrently transmitting Dzogchen and instructing in Dzogchen practice within the context of ngondro from the start. Even when they teach us sutra, Dzogchen ends up worked in. Dzogchen permeates everything from the start.
That's good to know.

With the Yungdrung guy I saw the only thing that permeated everything from the start was money......and lots of it.
Good posts all.

In general such options are to be taken to your Teacher for clarification. If that is not possible you can try different styles and see what works best for you.

What works for one person at a certain point in time does not work for another.

This is why Lord Buddha taught the 80,000 (means a lot) different teachings so that there would be something for everyone.

The key point is to be active and make progress in your practice.

I once met an exceptionally beautiful blond Dakini, with 4 ft long matted dreadlocks who had been told to break her 3 year retreat and go to the city (Boudhanath) by her teacher to find a man to satisfy her desires so she could get back to her practice without distractions.

"No addictions!" ChNNR

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weitsicht
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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by weitsicht » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:05 am

@oldbob
and you were the lucky one?
Ho! All the possible appearances and existences of samsara and nirvana have the same source, yet two paths and two results arise as the magical display of awareness and unawareness.
HO NANG SRI KHOR DAE THAMCHE KUN ZHI CHIG LAM NYI DRAE BU NYI RIG DANG MA RIG CHOM THRUL TE

oldbob
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Re: Is Monastic Ordination the Better Option for Single Dzogchen Practitioners?

Post by oldbob » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:59 am

weitsicht wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:05 am
@oldbob
and you were the lucky one?


Maybe you have me confused with someone else.

https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Madman-Su ... kpa+kunley

Or Aku Tenba - If anyone has a pdf, or other source of the Aku Tenba stories then please post or PM. They used to be on line but seem to have since disappeared. They are very funny.

Actually and happily no.

Has to do with respecting Karma.

While nosing around trying to find an adequate answer to this question, I ran into this interesting post.

Words are not Dzogchen. The entire written collection of humanity is contained / transformed in one moment of Guru Yoga.

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8489#p103015

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