I agree w HHSTMalcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:43 pmBetter make sure you can stab your wooden kīla into a rock before you attempt such feats. Otherwise, you just harm yourself.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:22 pm
Ok. Also keep in mind mantrins who hold samaya. Disparagers become the object of ritual slaying.
BTW, at Lamdre, recently, His Holiness Sakya Trizen 42 made it quite clear that the guru/disciple relationship was not one of total, slavish obedience. That if one's guru asked one to do things that contradicted the Dharma, one should disobey.
Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Glad we cleared that up.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:46 pmI agree w HHSTMalcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:43 pmBetter make sure you can stab your wooden kīla into a rock before you attempt such feats. Otherwise, you just harm yourself.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:22 pm
Ok. Also keep in mind mantrins who hold samaya. Disparagers become the object of ritual slaying.
BTW, at Lamdre, recently, His Holiness Sakya Trizen 42 made it quite clear that the guru/disciple relationship was not one of total, slavish obedience. That if one's guru asked one to do things that contradicted the Dharma, one should disobey.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I’m saying there’s too much finger pointing going on here. It’s enough to make this point. After a while the scale tips towards disparaging samaya holders.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:47 pmGlad we cleared that up.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:46 pmI agree w HHSTMalcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:43 pm
Better make sure you can stab your wooden kīla into a rock before you attempt such feats. Otherwise, you just harm yourself.
BTW, at Lamdre, recently, His Holiness Sakya Trizen 42 made it quite clear that the guru/disciple relationship was not one of total, slavish obedience. That if one's guru asked one to do things that contradicted the Dharma, one should disobey.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
No, there is no finger pointing -- there is mere acknowledgement that we have a religious tradition which is in deep denial about harmful abuses which it allows to happen to children, women, and others.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:50 pmI’m saying there’s too much finger pointing going on here. It’s enough to make this point. After a while the scale tips towards disparaging samaya holders.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Do what to remedy?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:53 pmNo, there is no finger pointing -- there is mere acknowledgement that we have a religious tradition which is in deep denial about harmful abuses which it allows to happen to children, women, and others.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:50 pmI’m saying there’s too much finger pointing going on here. It’s enough to make this point. After a while the scale tips towards disparaging samaya holders.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I believe it starts with having this convo.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:57 pm Do what to remedy?
Kevin...
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I dont think there is any great mystery here.
Ok some like the idea of being Indian Jones battling through the Himalayan snows and finding the Guru who puts them through enormous Herculean tasks from which they emerge serene and wise, flinging phurbas and shattering rock with mantras.
The reality for the overwhelming majority is quite different (thank goodness).
My friend B for example had spent time at Samye-Ling, and at Gampo Abbey.
She had put her all into her practice. And was exhausted depressed and was losing her faith in the Dharma.
She turned to Lama Ato who invited her to his home. He and his wife made her welcome and gave her the space to come to terms with the way her life was going. They supported her and listened and listened.
She left three days later restored physically and mentally, and reapplied herself to her ngondro practice and recommenced her daily practices generally. When I saw her she looked like a different person. Ten years younger. I asked her what made the difference. 'The kindness of Rinpoche and his wife' she said . 'Their huge compassion and kindness'.
Ok some like the idea of being Indian Jones battling through the Himalayan snows and finding the Guru who puts them through enormous Herculean tasks from which they emerge serene and wise, flinging phurbas and shattering rock with mantras.
The reality for the overwhelming majority is quite different (thank goodness).
My friend B for example had spent time at Samye-Ling, and at Gampo Abbey.
She had put her all into her practice. And was exhausted depressed and was losing her faith in the Dharma.
She turned to Lama Ato who invited her to his home. He and his wife made her welcome and gave her the space to come to terms with the way her life was going. They supported her and listened and listened.
She left three days later restored physically and mentally, and reapplied herself to her ngondro practice and recommenced her daily practices generally. When I saw her she looked like a different person. Ten years younger. I asked her what made the difference. 'The kindness of Rinpoche and his wife' she said . 'Their huge compassion and kindness'.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
That's a great story!Simon E. wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:24 pm I dont think there is any great mystery here.
Ok some like the idea of being Indian Jones battling through the Himalayan snows and finding the Guru who puts them through enormous Herculean tasks from which they emerge serene and wise, flinging phurbas and shattering rock with mantras.
The reality for the overwhelming majority is quite different (thank goodness).
My friend B for example had spent time at Samye-Ling, and at Gampo Abbey.
She had put her all into her practice. And was exhausted depressed and was losing her faith in the Dharma.
She turned to Lama Ato who invited her to his home. He and his wife made her welcome and gave her the space to come to terms with the way her life was going. They supported her and listened and listened.
She left three days later restored physically and mentally, and reapplied herself to her ngondro practice and recommenced her daily practices generally. When I saw her she looked like a different person. Ten years younger. I asked her what made the difference. 'The kindness of Rinpoche and his wife' she said . 'Their huge compassion and kindness'.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Lets start by not pretending that everything advanced in the name of Vajrayāna actually corresponds with Vajrayāna Dharma on any level. Lets also stop pretending, in the name of "samaya," that bestowing empowerments is a free pass to abuse students, sexually, financially, and emotionally.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:57 pmDo what to remedy?Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:53 pmNo, there is no finger pointing -- there is mere acknowledgement that we have a religious tradition which is in deep denial about harmful abuses which it allows to happen to children, women, and others.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:50 pm
I’m saying there’s too much finger pointing going on here. It’s enough to make this point. After a while the scale tips towards disparaging samaya holders.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Caveat emptor.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:10 pmLets start by not pretending that everything advanced in the name of Vajrayāna actually corresponds with Vajrayāna Dharma on any level. Lets also stop pretending, in the name of "samaya," that bestowing empowerments is a free pass to abuse students, sexually, financially, and emotionally.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Apparently, we need lemon laws. Anyway, empowerments granted by gurus with no realization have no force anyway.Crazywisdom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:15 pmCaveat emptor.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:10 pmLets start by not pretending that everything advanced in the name of Vajrayāna actually corresponds with Vajrayāna Dharma on any level. Lets also stop pretending, in the name of "samaya," that bestowing empowerments is a free pass to abuse students, sexually, financially, and emotionally.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
I've almost finished watching the brilliant Wild Wild Country. I can't help but think it's highly relevant to this thread.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Yes, I agree.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Was her bad experience at Gampo Abbey due to the Sakyong or other things? Does he have much to do with the abbey or is it more Pema Chodron?Simon E. wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:24 pm I dont think there is any great mystery here.
Ok some like the idea of being Indian Jones battling through the Himalayan snows and finding the Guru who puts them through enormous Herculean tasks from which they emerge serene and wise, flinging phurbas and shattering rock with mantras.
The reality for the overwhelming majority is quite different (thank goodness).
My friend B for example had spent time at Samye-Ling, and at Gampo Abbey.
She had put her all into her practice. And was exhausted depressed and was losing her faith in the Dharma.
She turned to Lama Ato who invited her to his home. He and his wife made her welcome and gave her the space to come to terms with the way her life was going. They supported her and listened and listened.
She left three days later restored physically and mentally, and reapplied herself to her ngondro practice and recommenced her daily practices generally. When I saw her she looked like a different person. Ten years younger. I asked her what made the difference. 'The kindness of Rinpoche and his wife' she said . 'Their huge compassion and kindness'.
DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Nothing to do with Mukpo. Or Pema Chodren.
I was just making the point that my friend was burned out.
It happens.
And what restored her was not eating shit or being branded or sexually exploited. None of those things happened.
What restored her to being a functioning and dedicated Dharma student was kindness and compassion.
'Crazy wisdom' is a gyp. A western fantasy. A projection. Wishful thinking.
I was just making the point that my friend was burned out.
It happens.
And what restored her was not eating shit or being branded or sexually exploited. None of those things happened.
What restored her to being a functioning and dedicated Dharma student was kindness and compassion.
'Crazy wisdom' is a gyp. A western fantasy. A projection. Wishful thinking.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
Ato Rinpoche. One of my heavy guys. I am lucky.Simon E. wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:24 pm She turned to Lama Ato who invited her to his home. He and his wife made her welcome and gave her the space to come to terms with the way her life was going. They supported her and listened and listened.
She left three days later restored physically and mentally, and reapplied herself to her ngondro practice and recommenced her daily practices generally. When I saw her she looked like a different person. Ten years younger. I asked her what made the difference. 'The kindness of Rinpoche and his wife' she said . 'Their huge compassion and kindness'.
All best wishes
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Ramblings: lunidharma.blogspot.com
"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Ramblings: lunidharma.blogspot.com
Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham
He's a treasure.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.