Big messages to deplorables ???

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Rick
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:14 pm

I'm (WAY) only kidding!

Trump would probably accuse Mooji of being an anti-"Make America Great Again!" terrorista with direct ties to Satan. And his cheerleaders would (pretend to) believe him!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Queequeg
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 pm

What's Trump's message to the deplorables today?

Don't trust the FBI, CIA, NSA, or anyone else in US intelligence... trust my bosom buddy, Vlad. He says he didn't do it.

Vlad breaks into a Shaggy karaoke.

Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Rick
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm

I honestly think that if Trump moved towards a formal policy of Russia as ally and Europe as enemy, 75% of Republicans and perhaps 90% of Trump’s base would cheer him on.

America’s gone mad ... too much entertainment and tv/movie/vgame fantasy, not enough reality. This is how a republic ends, not with a bang but a surrealistic whimper.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Queequeg
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Queequeg » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Rick wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm
This is how a republic ends
The lion is an apex predator, but will be brought down by a parasite in its bowels.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:00 am

Rick wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm
I honestly think that if Trump moved towards a formal policy of Russia as ally and Europe as enemy, 75% of Republicans and perhaps 90% of Trump’s base would cheer him on.

America’s gone mad ... too much entertainment and tv/movie/vgame fantasy, not enough reality. This is how a republic ends, not with a bang but a surrealistic whimper.
The nation is divided in half. If Trump goes too far and the Republicans do not intervene, the consequences may be grave.

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

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Rick
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:34 am

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:53 pm
Rick wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm
This is how a republic ends
The lion is an apex predator, but will be brought down by a parasite in its bowels.
Orange has no bowels, his mouth is directly connected to his arsehole. In fact, some say that they are the same organ.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Rick
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:36 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:00 am
Rick wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm
I honestly think that if Trump moved towards a formal policy of Russia as ally and Europe as enemy, 75% of Republicans and perhaps 90% of Trump’s base would cheer him on.

America’s gone mad ... too much entertainment and tv/movie/vgame fantasy, not enough reality. This is how a republic ends, not with a bang but a surrealistic whimper.
The nation is divided in half. If Trump goes too far and the Republicans do not intervene, the consequences may be grave.
For the entire planet. We’ve got ourselves a wicked emperor! With an army of sycophantic bootlickers behind him.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:49 am

I'll just leave this here, it pretty much sums up my views on the current situation:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/08 ... g-at-home/
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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KRB80
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by KRB80 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:30 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:49 am
I'll just leave this here, it pretty much sums up my views on the current situation:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/08 ... g-at-home/
Spot-on.
We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:21 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:49 am
I'll just leave this here, it pretty much sums up my views on the current situation:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/08 ... g-at-home/
Counter Punch wrote:The Democrats could well have won the 2016 election by running Bernie Sanders.
My sentiments.

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

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Rick
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pm

Yes, the Dems are flawed.

But the flawed-ness of Trump and the Reps is of a whole different order of magnitude.

If a morally/ethically responsible person were to have to choose between Trump/Reps and Dems ... which is the only realistic choice out there right now, Bernies have no chance to ascend to the Throne, the system was/is decisively rigged against it ... I don't think there's any convincing argument to go with the former. If there is ... please share!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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KRB80
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by KRB80 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:19 pm

I'm still hoping that the LONG-TERM aspect of Trump getting elected will be beneficial for the USA (the short term consequences are obviously atrocious). Turmoil and unrest are usually a prerequisite for actual relative growth and positive change. If Billary had gotten elected, it would have been more of the status-quo sameness.

Let's get real, in the final analysis, there is only one party; the corporate party. This is what, essentially, needs to change.
We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Jeff H » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:27 pm

Rick wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pm
Yes, the Dems are flawed.

But the flawed-ness of Trump and the Reps is of a whole different order of magnitude.

If a morally/ethically responsible person were to have to choose between Trump/Reps and Dems ... which is the only realistic choice out there right now, Bernies have no chance to ascend to the Throne, the system was/is decisively rigged against it ... I don't think there's any convincing argument to go with the former. If there is ... please share!
Agreed. Third party votes and refusing to vote both strengthen the status quo -- and make assured reelection easier. Voting Republican underwrites the explicit 1%, imperialist rule. Voting Democratic states an opinion that the business of government should benefit the 99% and democratic ideals. Unfortunately, as the article makes clear, benefiting the people and supporting democratic ideals is never what we get. The value of this article is becoming aware of that.

In the Dharma we have a response to the hopelessness of samsara; but politics is all about the conventional world. In Dharma you first have to understand pervasive suffering; in politics it is necessary to realize there's no choice.

I'm not a student of history, but I have read that it was the actions of the non-ruling class that actually forced the issues of democratic ideals after the American revolution. Having been told we fought for such ideals, but not seeing them enacted by the ruling, class drove common people to make demands.

That American experiment, built on a dream of idealism, has never been realized, but at least it was considered our underlying national character for almost 150 years. That ideal is about to be formally extinguished.

The question is whether enough of the citizenry see that and/or care enough to reinstate it.
We who are like children shrink from pain but love its causes. - Shantideva

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Rick
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:27 pm

I’m with you KRB80, I think good will come (is already coming) out of this mess. But if it is allowed (by Reps) to go too far, America might fall so far that is very difficult, if even possible, to come back from. Trump and the Reps might just succeed in breaking America and the world for a generational or more. (Breaking it even more than it’s broken right now.)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Karma Dorje » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:53 pm
Rick wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm
This is how a republic ends
The lion is an apex predator, but will be brought down by a parasite in its bowels.
Or in this case in the White House.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Rick wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:27 pm
Yes, the Dems are flawed.

But the flawed-ness of Trump and the Reps is of a whole different order of magnitude.

If a morally/ethically responsible person were to have to choose between Trump/Reps and Dems ... which is the only realistic choice out there right now, Bernies have no chance to ascend to the Throne, the system was/is decisively rigged against it ... I don't think there's any convincing argument to go with the former. If there is ... please share!
I feel like you're not getting the main point of the article. The article argues (and I agree) that part of the reason we have the present situation is precisely because we've continued to say "ah well, I gotta choose this awful candidate because the other guy is worse". While this might be tactically true in specific situations, adopting such an attitude is part of what got us to the awful Democratic party of today. Having no real opposition is what makes Trump strong. There are also other parts of the article worth discussing, such as why congress decided to grant the Trump white house new surveillance powers and a "forever AUMF" even though he's a traitor, a buffoon, etc. If these guys are "the only realistic choice", you can keep it, i'm done voting for people like that if I can avoid it, they don't deserve my support.
KRB80 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:19 pm


Let's get real, in the final analysis, there is only one party; the corporate party. This is what, essentially, needs to change.
Couldn't agree more, I don't see electoral politics improving anything until there is a party (whether it's the reformed Democrats or something else) that takes on corporate power. Until then, Trump will continue to manipulate the fearful by offering an alternative to the status quo (as awful an alternative as it is) and the majority of Dems will continue to be useless cheerleaders of a status quo that it turns out many people were not big fans of in the first place.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Rick » Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:41 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:53 pm
I feel like you're not getting the main point of the article. The article argues (and I agree) that part of the reason we have the present situation is precisely because we've continued to say "ah well, I gotta choose this awful candidate because the other guy is worse".
What's the *realistic* alternative? Vote for Nader and boot Gore out of the White House?

You have two behemoths, the Dems and Reps. They are both, to varying degrees, corrupt. One is clearly corrupter than the other. At this stage in the evolution of American political/cultural intelligence (or lack of same), there is next-to-0% chance that a non-mainstream-Dem (like Bernie) will be elected. (Not 0%, because it happened to Trump ... with the perfect storm of Russia's and Comey's and Assange's illicit/illegal help.)

So yes I wish America had a 3+ party political system. I wish the Democratic party would have the chutzpah to nominate a Bernie ... assuming he had a realistic chance of winning. I wish politicians would be held responsible for telling lies. I wish the American voters would care about being lied to. And so on, it's easy to have wishes for things to be better.

I think people should work towards making all these things reality. But the choice now is between Dems and Reps.

So I guess the challenge is how to work at making things better/saner while being realistic about the limited choices of the current situation.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:17 pm

Rick wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:41 pm

What's the *realistic* alternative? Vote for Nader and boot Gore out of the White House?
I actually did heh, and I feel justified in doing so. Anyway, assuming that one electoral victory of some crappy centrist democrat will somehow solve the Trump problem is exactly the problem, that has been the refrain for 20 years now and the country has only drifted rightward, corporate power and wealth inequality having had a historic boom, under at least two of the "party of the people" no less. Trump did not emerge in a vacuum, and "fixing" his ascent and the ascent of people like him is going to require a lot more than voting for some corporate shill who says he approves of gay marriage.
You have two behemoths, the Dems and Reps. They are both, to varying degrees, corrupt. One is clearly corrupter than the other. At this stage in the evolution of American political/cultural intelligence (or lack of same), there is next-to-0% chance that a non-mainstream-Dem (like Bernie) will be elected. (Not 0%, because it happened to Trump ... with the perfect storm of Russia's and Comey's and Assange's illicit/illegal help.)
I think this is an incorrect assessment of their relationship, while i'm all for voting tactically, pretending that simply voting for the lesser evil will solve the problem is what got us here. No one wants to support the Democrats any more because they don't stand for anything, there is no party presently willing to reign in corporate America it's only going to get worse, and we can see from 2016 that the "but i'm not Trump" approach is not only not foolproof, it may very well bring diminishing returns in the future.
So yes I wish America had a 3+ party political system. I wish the Democratic party would have the chutzpah to nominate a Bernie ... assuming he had a realistic chance of winning. I wish politicians would be held responsible for telling lies. I wish the American voters would care about being lied to. And so on, it's easy to have wishes for things to be better.

I think people should work towards making all these things reality. But the choice now is between Dems and Reps.

So I guess the challenge is how to work at making things better/saner while being realistic about the limited choices of the current situation.
You could work for change within the Democratic party, outside of it in 3rd party, work on holding politicians accountable etc., work on actually building something coherent that could pull the fearful and uncommitted away from Trump. The idea that Democrats deserve unqualified support because they are not Trump is in my opinion, somewhat dangerous, especially because now they seem to be morphing fully into the part of the empire (they were already almost there anyway), as the earlier article mentions.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Malcolm
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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:20 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:17 pm
Rick wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:41 pm

What's the *realistic* alternative? Vote for Nader and boot Gore out of the White House?
I actually did heh, and I feel justified in doing so.
Yeah, that worked out real well for America. :roll:
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Big messages to deplorables ???

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:20 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:17 pm
Rick wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:41 pm

What's the *realistic* alternative? Vote for Nader and boot Gore out of the White House?
I actually did heh, and I feel justified in doing so.
Yeah, that worked out real well for America. :roll:
Yeah the problem was me voting my conscience, not Bush stealing the election. I don't imagine the Gore presidency differing in any huge way from the Bush one, not in terms of empire building or increased corporate power at least.. but of course it's all theoretical. I did hold my nose and vote for the Clinton this last time. I would do the same again in a similar situation, but I have no illusions that it fixes or changes much of anything, it was just a good tactical choice under the circumstances.

How bad can these people get (the Democrats) before you guys are finally willing to make a break, I mean someone like Clinton was pretty much preferable only in terms of domestic policy, and then only on some social issues. I actually feel like in terms of platform, I have no compelling reason to vote for many Democrats anymore outside of a couple of social issues, where they are often 90% lip service anyway. A change is needed. Not only that, but such a change stands a better long-term chance of peeling back Trumpism than simply acquiescing to the status quo does. IF the above article is correct in any meaningful way, the corporate Democrats of the future will be even closer to simply being republicans, witness the Howard Schultz comment about "entitlements" - that is the future we can expect of an unreformed Democratic party. As the article says, they would rather lose to Trump than "lose" to the base of their own party. If that kind of political psychosis doesn't disqualify them, or at least substantially lower their viability as voting prospects, I don't know what would.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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