Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
It depends on the individual.Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
When I did ngondro, I did ngondro.
While doing the main practice of course.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
What does your Lama say?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
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Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
I am not a good chunk through ngöndro, but so far my experience is that the most important thing is establishing stable daily practice because ngöndro is really a great practice by itself and I am confident it has basically everything. However, if one is in a situation where some practice seems like a good idea to do (like me looking for a new apartment and job for example) then I'd say it is a good idea to do some short extra practice like Tara or Jambhala or something else depending on the situation.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.
- Arya Sanghata Sutra
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
If you have practice samaya because you received an empowerment BEFORE doing ngondro (ie put the cart before the horse), then I guess you will have to fulfill your daily commitments AND do ngondro simultaneously.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Well I guess that is the most important one right?amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:56 amWhat does your Lama say?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
But that wasn't really my question here.
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Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Yes it is the most important one. Why would you want any other?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:06 amWell I guess that is the most important one right?amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:56 amWhat does your Lama say?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
But that wasn't really my question here.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
My Guru is not often strict in these regards. I thought that I would get others' experience in the question raised and discuss it a little.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 amYes it is the most important one. Why would you want any other?
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Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Then do you take it more serious than your Guru does?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:40 amMy Guru is not often strict in these regards. I thought that I would get others' experience in the question raised and discuss it a little.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 amYes it is the most important one. Why would you want any other?
Then do you take it more serious than your Guru does?
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
I think it's a perfectly reasonable topic for discussion.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:47 amThen do you take it more serious than your Guru does?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:40 amMy Guru is not often strict in these regards. I thought that I would get others' experience in the question raised and discuss it a little.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 am
Yes it is the most important one. Why would you want any other?
Then do you take it more serious than your Guru does?
When I was doing prostrations my lama said that I should do periodic other practice as well as sitting practice. He said that I should do Chenrezig sadhana but not necessarily as a daily practice and also later Medicine Buddha.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Jeez. If you must know, my Guru has left that up to me. Do you think I would take the advice of strangers on an internet forum over that of my own precious Guru? C'mon.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:47 amThen do you take it more serious than your Guru does?Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:40 amMy Guru is not often strict in these regards. I thought that I would get others' experience in the question raised and discuss it a little.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:19 am
Yes it is the most important one. Why would you want any other?
Then do you take it more serious than your Guru does?
Do you have anything to add in relation to the questions that I posed?
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
If he has left it "up to you" then why are you asking us?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Let me clarify. I am not "asking" you guys "what to do". I am more interested in discussing whether there are benefits to carrying on a daily practice while doing the accumulations vs. focusing on just ngondro.
I was also interested in a general sense how others may have approached it as well.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
i'd guess that's probably because he wants to observe you to see your true intentions? if he is strict then how it is to know if it's your intention or you just being compliant? ) i'd say talk to him. at least that's what i did when i had similar question. he said it's better to do just ngondro and don't dissipate efforts on some other things, like joining pujas.. but i would add i didn't receive any other commitments/daily practices as my teacher gave me only ngondro and said this is must be done before proceeding any further.
stay open, spread love
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Thank you for asking, it is potentially an interesting discussion for me as well - that is if it allowed to develop in the spirit of civil discourse.Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:50 pmLet me clarify. I am not "asking" you guys "what to do". I am more interested in discussing whether there are benefits to carrying on a daily practice while doing the accumulations vs. focusing on just ngondro.
I was also interested in a general sense how others may have approached it as well.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Ngondro is sufficient by itself as a daily practice, since it contains all the essentials of creation and completion stage.Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
I do my Ngondro mainly with my Yidam sadhana since i received the empowerment and all the tri first and felt that it will be a waste not to continue with the sadhana. But really, most Yidam sadhana is really not that long if the refuge, bodhicitta, Vajrasattva hundred syllables, mandala, guru yoga are all taken out..I am happy with this arrangement since daily accumulation amounts to a huge number steadily. Assume you do 50 hundred syllables each day in the main practice, one year will attain 18250, 20 years will attain 365000. Not a shabby amount of accumulation if one can maintain for entire life..Terma wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am This is mainly a question for those who have finished their ngondro or at the very least a good chunk of the way through.
Do you think it is better to do ngondro as a stand alone practice, meaning focusing only on that and not doing any other daily practices? Or do you feel there is some benefit to doing a short daily practice along with doing the accumulations?
Everyone is different and every teacher gives different advice. Having said that, how you go about it?
Thanks.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
I think Buddha’s intent was finalized in Kalachakra where he described the Sadhana, the preliminaries are to the development stage, which makes sense. But they are also not long. The development stage is the preliminary practice,
which makes even more sense.
which makes even more sense.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
I just came across this in my notes from a retreat w Tsoknyi a couple summers ago:
“Do your ngondro while you are young- it will only get harder.”
I’ve sat basically every day for 20 years, have 2 years accumulated retreat time, but ngondro kicks my damn ass. I’ve been stalled in the neighborhood of 30k prostrations for years; I went ahead and did 10k of vajrasattva last winter, and that’s a practice that I can get behind. If I could ever get over this prostration junk. I don’t have an excuse- I’m not old yet and in good shape. It only takes me 20 mins to do a mala. But as a practice, it bores me to tears... I can’t fathom not sitting and just doing prostrations. And I feel like I’m just taking it on faith that ngondro is worthwhile- I’ve met many dozens of people who had completed at least a full accumulation, but only a few struck me as serious practitioners...tho I can’t know their minds... it’s just that they can’t sit still for more than a few minutes, seem terrified of any kind of meditation without an object, and tend to parrot painfully self-deprecating views year after year...
Just venting. You said you were curious about other people’s experiences.
“Do your ngondro while you are young- it will only get harder.”
I’ve sat basically every day for 20 years, have 2 years accumulated retreat time, but ngondro kicks my damn ass. I’ve been stalled in the neighborhood of 30k prostrations for years; I went ahead and did 10k of vajrasattva last winter, and that’s a practice that I can get behind. If I could ever get over this prostration junk. I don’t have an excuse- I’m not old yet and in good shape. It only takes me 20 mins to do a mala. But as a practice, it bores me to tears... I can’t fathom not sitting and just doing prostrations. And I feel like I’m just taking it on faith that ngondro is worthwhile- I’ve met many dozens of people who had completed at least a full accumulation, but only a few struck me as serious practitioners...tho I can’t know their minds... it’s just that they can’t sit still for more than a few minutes, seem terrified of any kind of meditation without an object, and tend to parrot painfully self-deprecating views year after year...
Just venting. You said you were curious about other people’s experiences.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
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Re: Ngondro: A Stand Alone Practice For You?
Ngondro was my "main practice," for years, but also had a some other short recitation practices--short torma offering to my protectors, and Chenrezig practice which was fairly regular, and some occasional Tara, LuJin, etc.
I think it's good to focus on ngondro when you are accumulating.....Ngondro can be seen as a Guru Yoga practice, really.....all of the Ngondro practices can be understood in this way. In the Karma Kagyu tradition, it's usual to accumulate Ngondro as a main practice and to do other practices at times, as well....when you start the main yidam practices, you will find that the ngondro practice you've accumulated becomes modified in a way as part of the yidam sadhanas, as well. So, if you're on that path, it's good to follow the gradual approach. But you can also understand Karma Kagyu Ngondro as a stand-along with Mahamudra as the associated "completion stage" methods. This is how it's presented in ChagChen Ngedon Gyamtso.
Shangpa Ngondro actually comes AFTER yidam practice. So, there are a variety of approaches.
I think it's good to focus on ngondro when you are accumulating.....Ngondro can be seen as a Guru Yoga practice, really.....all of the Ngondro practices can be understood in this way. In the Karma Kagyu tradition, it's usual to accumulate Ngondro as a main practice and to do other practices at times, as well....when you start the main yidam practices, you will find that the ngondro practice you've accumulated becomes modified in a way as part of the yidam sadhanas, as well. So, if you're on that path, it's good to follow the gradual approach. But you can also understand Karma Kagyu Ngondro as a stand-along with Mahamudra as the associated "completion stage" methods. This is how it's presented in ChagChen Ngedon Gyamtso.
Shangpa Ngondro actually comes AFTER yidam practice. So, there are a variety of approaches.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")