Is it rare to spend time with your guru?

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:46 am

the title of this thread is incomprehensible.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by SonamTashi » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:26 am

pemachophel wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:07 am
Some additional Lamas living here in the U.S. or Canada:

Lama Thubten Dorje & Lama Palden, Orgyen Samten Ling, Salt Lake City, UT

Lama Willa Miller, NH & Boston, MA

Lama Lhanang, Jigme Lingpa Center, San Diego, CA

Khenpo Ugyen Wangchuk, Ewam Ku-sum-ling, Kneeland, CA

Lama Tsering Wangdu, Movement Center, Portland, OR

Jigme Tromge Rinpoche, Padmasambhava Peace institute, Cazadero, CA

Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal, Padmansambhava Buddhist Center, Binghamton, NY

Khenpo Sonam Tobgyal, Riwoche Buddhist Temple, Toronto, Ont.
Lama Thupten Dorje and Lama Palden are fantastic. I'm always blown away by their generosity, kindness and wisdom. It warms my heart every time I see them mentioned on this site. They have little daughter temples here and there. Their little daughter temple down where I live, Tahri Marpo Ling in St. George Utah, has a fantastic teacher by the name of Lhamo Thupten Dawa Khandro. I assume their other daughter temples might be similar, but Tahri Marpo Ling's small size is great for people who want a close relationship. Obviously it is limited to a certain geographic area though. However, the onus is obviously on the student to observe small/new groups and gurus like this and be responsible.

But anyway, everything I have experienced with Urgyen Samten Ling and their daughter temples has been fantastic.
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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:35 am

yagmort wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:47 pm
personally i feel personal connection with guru is crucial. you both have to be really close.. i wouldn't necessary talk friendship, but my idea is that a student and a guru have to be really mutually exposed. that way they get to know each other better and imho that's the only way an authentic teacher can guide his disciples. at least this is how it has been for ages. if you receive some practical instructions among hundreds of other people but a teacher doesn't even remember your name.. well, i guess how he can guide you then?
:good:
what are you doing

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:50 am

Sherab Rigdrol wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:19 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:46 pm
In this day and age, it doesn't seem so common, at least not in the West. For me, this is part and parcel of the degeneration of the Dharma in general and the Vajrayana in particular in this age of dregs.

Sorry if this offends anyone.
It's true, but has to do more with financial accessibility than anything else. And of course people who don't have the financial resources to spend time with their Lama suffer from a merit deficit.....

And the real question is how does one fix that deficit. Yes, I know practicing generosity, but what method is the best, how often and for how long. So many obstacles in modern times despite unprecedented accessibility to the teachings.
i would say problem is that a lama can have a limited number of students according to his/her capacity.

in the actual system of lamas traveling around the globe, only a few students can receive oportune advice and instructions.

for the rest of we students, diligence and self management seems something impertative.
what are you doing

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Sennin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:24 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:46 am
the title of this thread is incomprehensible.
It really is.
:| :| :|
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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:58 am

Actually I think it might have been an auto-correct typo that was intended to be written as 'spend time with', but it comes across poorly :(

If one of the mods would be so kind......
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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by joehaz21 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:26 am

It was an auto correct mistake sorry everyone

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Norwegian » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:05 am

joehaz21 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:26 am
It was an auto correct mistake sorry everyone
There's no problem, your post was perfectly understandable.

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Re: Is it rare to spend time with your guru?

Post by Wayfarer » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:48 am

Yes, the post is quite understandable.

My response to the question is, that the guru role is mainly important in Tibetan traditions, as I understand it. It is not really emphasised in Theravada cultures, and in East Asian traditions, though there are certainly masters, roshis, and esteemed teachers, I don't think the term 'guru' is generally used.

In Zen teachings, there is a strong emphasis on the teacher-student relationship but again, from my experience, it is slightly different to the guru-disciple relationship that are characteristic of Vajrayana traditions.

Am I incorrect in that understanding?
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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Aryjna » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:30 am

Sherab Rigdrol wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:37 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:34 pm
Sherab Rigdrol wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:19 pm

It's true, but has to do more with financial accessibility than anything else. And of course people who don't have the financial resources to spend time with their Lama suffer from a merit deficit.....

And the real question is how does one fix that deficit. Yes, I know practicing generosity, but what method is the best, how often and for how long. So many obstacles in modern times despite unprecedented accessibility to the teachings.
I don't think it is only financial. It seems it is not possible to meet the well known masters often, especially not often or long enough to develop some kind of personal relationship. Maybe there are exceptions, or it may be possible if someone is a monk in their monastery, working in their organization, or something like that. Also, it may be the same thing in India and Nepal to some extent. I was recently at an event organized by a Nepali community and someone was saying that it is easier to see such masters here than it is in Nepal.
Sure it is. People who don't have to work can spend as much time as possible with their teacher or searching for one.
It seems that some of the busier teachers do not have time to meet and develop personal relationships with students, even if the student has a lot of time and money. Also, some speak only Tibetan which means the student needs to be fluent in Tibetan, unless the intimate personal relationship is going to be through a translator.

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Aryjna » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:41 am

yagmort wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:10 pm
it is certainly not "one size fits all" situation. personally i don't see how i can advance on the path without close connection with my teacher. neither i can see how anyone else be able to do that with a random access to teachings/high lamas every now and then. i remember one guy who was ordained and he said something along the lines "i received teachings from Dalai Lama, from Karmapa, from <some other high Rinpoche i don't remember the name>, i think i need to see Sakya Trindzin now". to me it's more like a "collectibles" approach, but ymmv.
Personal guidance is very useful, but saying that one cannot advance by practicing, after receiving the necessary empowerments and explanations, simply means that you think the teachings are useless. Also, why would you criticize someone for wanting to meet Sakya Trizin.

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by haha » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:10 pm

“This approach along is vajrayana” is not valid to everyone. Vajrayana is also called upayayana. For different people, different approach.

Definitely, to some people close connection with Guru is very good, wonderful. In such case, they both have strong karmic connection or relation. To other people, there are other approaches. There are people who even though they have received higher instruction, they do not feel they have received anything unless they are being touched.

Following quote may be useful here.
Another point is that when giving a teaching such as this, there needs to be some kind of pure link between master and disciple. I feel that we do have a pure link together. There will not be much chance for anyone to destroy that by impure perception or damaging the vows of the precious samaya, because all of you meeting here will not stay together with me for very long. Therefore, there will not be much chance to break samaya. It is said that a master is like a fire: if you stay too close, you get burned. But if you keep a bit of a distance, you can get the warmth and brightness, and you will not be burned. When everyone goes home to his or her own place, you will have gotten the teaching, and you will not have a chance to break samaya with me. That is a good thing.

Tulku Urgen Rinpoche From As It Is I and II

In this world hatred never ceases with hatred
With non hatred it ceases, this is the ancient lore.

Upakilesasuttaṃ

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Crazywisdom » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:28 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:35 am
yagmort wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:47 pm
personally i feel personal connection with guru is crucial. you both have to be really close.. i wouldn't necessary talk friendship, but my idea is that a student and a guru have to be really mutually exposed. that way they get to know each other better and imho that's the only way an authentic teacher can guide his disciples. at least this is how it has been for ages. if you receive some practical instructions among hundreds of other people but a teacher doesn't even remember your name.. well, i guess how he can guide you then?
:good:
IMHO it’s what empowerment and complete transmissions and instructions are for, which can last years. So you get time to ask. Then, the baby talk has to end and it’s time to grow up and do the stuff.
I got my Chili Chilaya.

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by pemachophel » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:11 pm

IME, spending a lot of time with a Teacher helps pickle you in the Dharma. This happens by watching how the Teacher conducts His or Her life, constantly being reminded to practice, and, yes, constantly being corrected when one is not doing something right. Correction may be gentle or not so gentle. It may be extremely tiring and irksome, and you may sometimes want to run away. (I ran away twice.) But, also IME, you learn so much more about the Dharma and its practice than those who have not had this experience as well as gain a solid foundation most who are left to their own devices commonly do not lay. If the Lama is good, there's no hiding one's kleshas. If the Lama is Realized, meditating with Them while They are meditating is a whole other experience. Constantly having you progress in meditation checked and corrected -- for me, invaluable. In Tibetan, this is called gom-tri.

As for thinking one does not have the opportunity to be in such a close relationship with a Lama, doesn't that really mean one is not willing to move or do whatever else is necessary to make that happen? I know I had to move to exactly the last place in the world I wanted to move to make this happen.

Sorry once again if this offends anyone. Just my personal experience and opinion.
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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Ayu » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:50 pm

Can this effect take place by imagining the teacher was here as well? There are so many people who neither have a chance to live next next to their guru nor they can see him often. But they keep faith deeply.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by pemachophel » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:46 pm

Sorry I uploaded the pic of the fasting Buddha three times. That wasn't my intention. I guess I didn't wait long enough for the pic to appear in my post. In any case, this was posted on FB by Tulku Yeshi today with the quote: "If we want to become Buddha, we must meditate as Siddhartha did." My intention in adding this to my post was to underscore that the path to Buddhahood is not necessarily "a piece of cake." We might have to do things we don't really want to do, even very, very major things.

Again, sorry if this offends anyone.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by Ayu » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:53 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:46 pm
...
Again, sorry if this offends anyone.

At least I'm not offended. No criticism intended in my question, really.
I was just thinking of all these Tibetans who are not able to see their guru often. And also myself... I can't live near to my teacher and I speak to him personally once a year or once in three years. I can't help it.
Fortunately I'm able to attend his classes 10 times a year. There I see him from afar a bit. I'm amongst 40 or 50 deciples. He also teaches us by meditating with him.

It seems to me there is some kind of presence (his encouraging energy) being here around with me most of the time. So, he inspires and protects without being physically present.
Has anybody heard of this phenomenon before?
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Re: Is it rare to spew don’t time with you guru?

Post by weitsicht » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:32 am

This whole question is about intensity and availability, right?

The guru is part of the whole game. What about his/her willingness to make him/herself rather accessible or not.
One of the functions of the teacher is not to be very interested in you. You are not as fascinating as you think
James Low.

I am not choosing my guru along the criterium whether s/he accepts me in his/her household. And it hardly works like that any more (not that I heard of)
However, should I have no opportunity to talk to him/her in person whatsoever, I have doubts that this would work in the long term.

I heard that DJKR once was stalked by a student who had lots of money and time. In the end, he disappeared for three days or so *for everyone*
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Re: Is it rare to spend time with your guru?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:58 am

A bunch of you bitched about the thread title, but not one of you thought it might be a good idea to report the issue to a moderator to deal with. :roll:
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Re: Is it rare to spend time with your guru?

Post by Wayfarer » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:03 am

sorry, that was me. I generally do report stuff but I just made a comment in the thread on this occasion. Anyway thanks for fixing it.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

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