Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

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chimechodra
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Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by chimechodra » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:01 pm

[Mod note: Split from here.]

For anyone who is curious, Project Sunshine just released a third report. It's really bad. Especially this part:
During the summers of 2004-2005, Ann worked in the Sakyong’s household at SMC. Where she was working, Ann had a clear view of the people who came to wait for their appointments with the Sakyong. Ann saw lots of people come, but she began to notice that there were parents bringing young teenage girls. The girls seemed nervous. The parents occasionally said something like, “This is such an honor for you to have this experience.” Then a kusung would come for the girl and the parents would leave. Ann worked directly below the Sakyong’s bedroom and since there was no air conditioning, in the summer the windows were open. Ann could hear what sounded distinctly like sexual encounters.
There were talks of having him return after his 1 year break from teaching. I don't think he'll be coming back from this.

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Malcolm
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:01 pm

chimechodra wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:01 pm
For anyone who is curious, Project Sunshine just released a third report. It's really bad. Especially this part:
During the summers of 2004-2005, Ann worked in the Sakyong’s household at SMC. Where she was working, Ann had a clear view of the people who came to wait for their appointments with the Sakyong. Ann saw lots of people come, but she began to notice that there were parents bringing young teenage girls. The girls seemed nervous. The parents occasionally said something like, “This is such an honor for you to have this experience.” Then a kusung would come for the girl and the parents would leave. Ann worked directly below the Sakyong’s bedroom and since there was no air conditioning, in the summer the windows were open. Ann could hear what sounded distinctly like sexual encounters.
There were talks of having him return after his 1 year break from teaching. I don't think he'll be coming back from this.
These are serious felonies. If true, he is facing a lot of time in jail, eight years for each charge.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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passel
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by passel » Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:13 pm

I was there working that summer- never saw that but then why would I have. Not shocked, but that suuucks. I never thought of him as someone that I could learn from, but still, we had a few conversations- he was an ok guy, uncomfortable in his role for the most part, and had spent time with good teachers. Not an especially strong practitioner, or well studied, but some of the people around him were. What a mess. I hope this isn’t true, for those young girls’ sake, but it’s not terribly hard to believe. Yuk.

On a related note, around the same time-
Someone told me (so, hearsay), in private that Dzongsar had had a birthday party where only underage girls were invited, The were expected (at least one of the girls was really unhappy about it) to write their phone numbers on his arms in Sharpie. The person wouldn’t say any more- dropped the subject, Omertà firmly in place. I definitely haven’t gone for teachings from the guy, because of that.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by kirtu » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:24 pm

Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Aryjna » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:48 pm

There's all kinds of shit in this one. Some of them, which are not sex-related, would be quite funny under different circumstances.

Edit: A lot of the material is really terrible. It is blatantly obvious that there is not the slightest room for doubt that he is a terrible choice for a teacher and should be in jail.

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Malcolm
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Malcolm » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:01 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:48 pm
There's all kinds of shit in this one. Some of them, which are not sex-related, would be quite funny under different circumstances.

Edit: A lot of the material is really terrible. It is blatantly obvious that there is not the slightest room for doubt that he is a terrible choice for a teacher and should be in jail.
Not only is Mukpo going down, but if true, so is Pema Chodron:
" I was raped at the age of 21 by a Shambhala Center director. This led to a pregnancy and then a miscarriage. About a year later I approached Pema Chödrön to disclose what had happened. As a respected practitioner and also as a woman, it was my expectation that I would find an ally.

Instead, Ani Pema told me bluntly, "I don't believe you." I was shattered. After further discussion with her, Ani Pema then said, “Well, I wasn't there, but if it's true I suspect that you were into it."

To be not believed, and then to have it suggested to me that I was being untruthful about something so difficult, was retraumatizing to say the least. To this date, and despite having had opportunities, Pema Chödrön has never apologized to me for these comments.

What I would like to know is: what are Pema Chödrön's intentions in joining the Transition Team? If other survivors come forth with their stories, will she believe them? Will she discourage others from speaking out? Will she suggest to others that they secretly enjoyed it?

Through speaking out, it is my intention and wish that this may incite meaningful change and be of benefit to all beings."
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Aryjna
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by Aryjna » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:15 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:01 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:48 pm
There's all kinds of shit in this one. Some of them, which are not sex-related, would be quite funny under different circumstances.

Edit: A lot of the material is really terrible. It is blatantly obvious that there is not the slightest room for doubt that he is a terrible choice for a teacher and should be in jail.
Not only is Mukpo going down, but if true, so is Pema Chodron:
" I was raped at the age of 21 by a Shambhala Center director. This led to a pregnancy and then a miscarriage. About a year later I approached Pema Chödrön to disclose what had happened. As a respected practitioner and also as a woman, it was my expectation that I would find an ally.

Instead, Ani Pema told me bluntly, "I don't believe you." I was shattered. After further discussion with her, Ani Pema then said, “Well, I wasn't there, but if it's true I suspect that you were into it."

To be not believed, and then to have it suggested to me that I was being untruthful about something so difficult, was retraumatizing to say the least. To this date, and despite having had opportunities, Pema Chödrön has never apologized to me for these comments.

What I would like to know is: what are Pema Chödrön's intentions in joining the Transition Team? If other survivors come forth with their stories, will she believe them? Will she discourage others from speaking out? Will she suggest to others that they secretly enjoyed it?

Through speaking out, it is my intention and wish that this may incite meaningful change and be of benefit to all beings."
Yes, that is a bit surprising.

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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by mandog » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:01 pm

This report is so disturbing.

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passel
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Re: Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo & Lama Tsultrim Allione: Shambhala's Sakyong Mipham

Post by passel » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:14 pm

Sad af
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by Wayfarer » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:32 pm

Shambhala has issued a statement.
In a statement Thursday, Shambhala International rejected the report's findings.

"These allegations are not only unfounded, but they each are based on speculative and unsubstantiated claims made by a single unnamed source," the Buddhist organization said of one series of allegations in the report.

"For Project Sunshine to publish such salacious and defamatory information is grossly irresponsible."

The statement is a departure from the organization's response to earlier reports, which recognized that Shambhala was part of a "broader cultural reckoning in contemporary society."
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Malcolm
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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by Malcolm » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:00 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:32 pm
Shambhala has issued a statement.
In a statement Thursday, Shambhala International rejected the report's findings.

"These allegations are not only unfounded, but they each are based on speculative and unsubstantiated claims made by a single unnamed source," the Buddhist organization said of one series of allegations in the report.

"For Project Sunshine to publish such salacious and defamatory information is grossly irresponsible."

The statement is a departure from the organization's response to earlier reports, which recognized that Shambhala was part of a "broader cultural reckoning in contemporary society."
https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/new ... st-leader/
Yes. So what. They cant be believed. Mukpo needs to be investigated by US authorities.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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passel
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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by passel » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:36 am

My 2c: they're anticipating litigation; because of that, they lead with blanket denials.

It may be ethically distasteful for a lot of reasons, but it's a pretty sound legal position because, although it is possible that every report in PS is 100% true, nothing in it so far is actual evidence- (according to the Rules of Evidence in the US. It's all still hearsay.)

A lot more would have to happen in order for the information that's showing up in these reports to become admissible in either a civil or a criminal case- you'd need to have nameable witnesses willing to testify for a start. Those witnesses may very well come forward, particularly if a halfway decent lawyer can put together a modest class action, but they haven't yet and they may never.

But in the meantime, if Shambhala officially says anything that could be construed as an admission, then that admission would make the hearsay evidence fair game. Hopefully we'll get an acknowledgement of harm and some settlements and probably a court order or two, but Shambhala's lawyers are acting in accord w their professional ethics not to let OM or SI admit anything at this point.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by TheSynergist » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:41 am

If that statement about Pema Chödrön is correct, that is very disappointing, though not surprising. Pema Chödrön has taught alongside Mipham and her silence about the scandal has IMHO been suspicious. *sigh*

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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by kirtu » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:03 am

TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:41 am
If that statement about Pema Chödrön is correct, that is very disappointing, though not surprising. Pema Chödrön has taught alongside Mipham and her silence about the scandal has IMHO been suspicious. *sigh*
The statement is merely that Pema Chödrön dismissed a report of abuse out of hand. It is disappointing and she should have investigated but she is not clairvoyant.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

gb9810
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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by gb9810 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:42 am

kirtu wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:03 am
TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:41 am
If that statement about Pema Chödrön is correct, that is very disappointing, though not surprising. Pema Chödrön has taught alongside Mipham and her silence about the scandal has IMHO been suspicious. *sigh*
The statement is merely that Pema Chödrön dismissed a report of abuse out of hand. It is disappointing and she should have investigated but she is not clairvoyant.

Kirt
merely?! I don't consider "not clairvoyant" a valid defense for someone in leadership/mentorship/teacher positions (if statement about her is true, that is..) It's not only disappointing but cowardly, irresponsible, and unbecoming of someone in her position. I'd fire her if she works for my institution

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TheSynergist
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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by TheSynergist » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:51 am

kirtu wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:03 am
TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:41 am
If that statement about Pema Chödrön is correct, that is very disappointing, though not surprising. Pema Chödrön has taught alongside Mipham and her silence about the scandal has IMHO been suspicious. *sigh*
The statement is merely that Pema Chödrön dismissed a report of abuse out of hand. It is disappointing and she should have investigated but she is not clairvoyant.

Kirt
Pema Chodron worked/taught with Mipham, so she might not need clairvoyant powers to understand his character.

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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by smcj » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:34 am

At this point I think it safe to say the courts will have a great deal of influence on how the Dharma comes to the West.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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passel
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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by passel » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:54 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:34 am
At this point I think it safe to say the courts will have a great deal of influence on how the Dharma comes to the West.
More than the press you think? Safe to say the days of in-house publishers controlling the narrative of what is and isn’t dharma are over and done w.

So many people have skin in the dharma game at this point, for better or worse, that it’s right that we treat the behavior of big public meditation teachers as a matter of public concern. The days of big centralized hubs of dharma is over and gone.

I feel bad for the clean lamas, both of them.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by kirtu » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:58 am

TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:51 am
kirtu wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:03 am
TheSynergist wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:41 am
If that statement about Pema Chödrön is correct, that is very disappointing, though not surprising. Pema Chödrön has taught alongside Mipham and her silence about the scandal has IMHO been suspicious. *sigh*
The statement is merely that Pema Chödrön dismissed a report of abuse out of hand. It is disappointing and she should have investigated but she is not clairvoyant.

Kirt
Pema Chodron worked/taught with Mipham, so she might not need clairvoyant powers to understand his character.
I was referring to the report of her out-of-hand rejection of the testimony of the woman who had sought her out.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Re: Buddhist Project Sunshine Phase 3 Final Report (Shambhala/Sakyong Mipham/etc)

Post by Virgo » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:21 am

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There ain't no need for ya'
There ain't no need for ya'

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