Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

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MatthewAngby
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Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:36 am

^ above topic.

Bristollad
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Re: Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

Post by Bristollad » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:58 am

The gods are still in Samsara, they still experience suffering and when they die they are reborn in the lower realms. Buddhas are liberated, they are no longer subject to rebirth due to karma and so due not suffer. The gods spend all their time selfishly trying to enjoy themselves. Buddhas without effort work for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time.

One could liken the condition of the gods to our TV celebrities and millionaires who seem to have everything they want, theirs for the taking: are they happy or not? (Check out the number of celebrities who end up paranoid worried about losing everything, suicidal, drug dependent, friendless)

MatthewAngby
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Re: Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:03 am

Bristollad wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:58 am
The gods are still in Samsara, they still experience suffering and when they die they are reborn in the lower realms. Buddhas are liberated, they are no longer subject to rebirth due to karma and so due not suffer. The gods spend all their time selfishly trying to enjoy themselves. Buddhas without effort work for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time.

One could liken the condition of the gods to our TV celebrities and millionaires who seem to have everything they want, theirs for the taking: are they happy or not? (Check out the number of celebrities who end up paranoid worried about losing everything, suicidal, drug dependent, friendless)
No the Tv celebrities are not happy at all, at least, not constantly happy. The Buddhas work for beings without effort, and have unconditioned happiness, but is the happiness of the gods when their karma to be happy is ripe greater than the buddhas?

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Grigoris
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Re: Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

Post by Grigoris » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:17 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:03 am
Bristollad wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:58 am
The gods are still in Samsara, they still experience suffering and when they die they are reborn in the lower realms. Buddhas are liberated, they are no longer subject to rebirth due to karma and so due not suffer. The gods spend all their time selfishly trying to enjoy themselves. Buddhas without effort work for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time.

One could liken the condition of the gods to our TV celebrities and millionaires who seem to have everything they want, theirs for the taking: are they happy or not? (Check out the number of celebrities who end up paranoid worried about losing everything, suicidal, drug dependent, friendless)
No the Tv celebrities are not happy at all, at least, not constantly happy. The Buddhas work for beings without effort, and have unconditioned happiness, but is the happiness of the gods when their karma to be happy is ripe greater than the buddhas?
Do you think it is possible for a samsaric being to experience a mental state which is superior to that of an enlightened being???
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Bristollad
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Re: Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

Post by Bristollad » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:51 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:03 am
Bristollad wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:58 am
The gods are still in Samsara, they still experience suffering and when they die they are reborn in the lower realms. Buddhas are liberated, they are no longer subject to rebirth due to karma and so due not suffer. The gods spend all their time selfishly trying to enjoy themselves. Buddhas without effort work for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time.

One could liken the condition of the gods to our TV celebrities and millionaires who seem to have everything they want, theirs for the taking: are they happy or not? (Check out the number of celebrities who end up paranoid worried about losing everything, suicidal, drug dependent, friendless)
No the Tv celebrities are not happy at all, at least, not constantly happy. The Buddhas work for beings without effort, and have unconditioned happiness, but is the happiness of the gods when their karma to be happy is ripe greater than the buddhas?
No because the happiness of the gods is samsaric happiness - it is tinged with the awareness that it will not, cannot last. And that, that very "happiness" will be the cause of future suffering.

In a way, this discussion reminds me of the recent one regarding the use of psychedelics - though some may have an experience that at the time they enjoy and they feel as if insights are gained, these "insights" are as nothing compared to reading, reflecting and meditating on the path. Instead they can become a hindrance to the path and even to our ordinary samsaric lives.

MatthewAngby
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Re: Do the gods or buddhas have greater happiness , joy and enjoyment?

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:30 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:17 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:03 am
Bristollad wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:58 am
The gods are still in Samsara, they still experience suffering and when they die they are reborn in the lower realms. Buddhas are liberated, they are no longer subject to rebirth due to karma and so due not suffer. The gods spend all their time selfishly trying to enjoy themselves. Buddhas without effort work for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time.

One could liken the condition of the gods to our TV celebrities and millionaires who seem to have everything they want, theirs for the taking: are they happy or not? (Check out the number of celebrities who end up paranoid worried about losing everything, suicidal, drug dependent, friendless)
No the Tv celebrities are not happy at all, at least, not constantly happy. The Buddhas work for beings without effort, and have unconditioned happiness, but is the happiness of the gods when their karma to be happy is ripe greater than the buddhas?
Do you think it is possible for a samsaric being to experience a mental state which is superior to that of an enlightened being???
Bristollad wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:51 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:03 am
Bristollad wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:58 am
The gods are still in Samsara, they still experience suffering and when they die they are reborn in the lower realms. Buddhas are liberated, they are no longer subject to rebirth due to karma and so due not suffer. The gods spend all their time selfishly trying to enjoy themselves. Buddhas without effort work for the benefit of all sentient beings all the time.

One could liken the condition of the gods to our TV celebrities and millionaires who seem to have everything they want, theirs for the taking: are they happy or not? (Check out the number of celebrities who end up paranoid worried about losing everything, suicidal, drug dependent, friendless)
No the Tv celebrities are not happy at all, at least, not constantly happy. The Buddhas work for beings without effort, and have unconditioned happiness, but is the happiness of the gods when their karma to be happy is ripe greater than the buddhas?
No because the happiness of the gods is samsaric happiness - it is tinged with the awareness that it will not, cannot last. And that, that very "happiness" will be the cause of future suffering.

In a way, this discussion reminds me of the recent one regarding the use of psychedelics - though some may have an experience that at the time they enjoy and they feel as if insights are gained, these "insights" are as nothing compared to reading, reflecting and meditating on the path. Instead they can become a hindrance to the path and even to our ordinary samsaric lives.

Ah got it! The happiness of Buddha is beyond our “happiness”, which is only in the cause of suffering. But Buddha happiness is not in nature of suffering, unconditioned happiness. So to Grigoris question, I think buddhas have greater and authentic happiness compared to the gods, but their happiness is not the samsaric happiness as we know of. So to make it short : Buddhas happiness is unconditional hence infinite and great,surpassing the gods, but however it’s happiness cannot be fathomed by us samsaric beings.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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