It seems to me that, though the emphasis in dzogchen is on spontaneity and uncontrivedness, awareness of luminosity and visions is more likely to come about when one has engaged in intentional visualization at the level of tantra. One is not actively constructing at the time that they manifest, but the fact that one has trained in that way opens one to that possibility.
Maybe this is dead obvious to many here, but I am only now recognizing the natural importance of tantric sādhana to dzogchen. Before the connection was merely theoretical, and I was skeptical. But now I wonder: is dzogchen truly realizable without some acquaintance with tantra?
Now, maybe what I'm talking about is not dzogchen proper at all, but anuyoga or some lower level. If so, it seems fine to practice where I happen to be now, as it seems to be what I need. And perhaps, in the fullness of the fourth time, the practice of dzogchen will be open to me. Any reflections?
Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
Neither person nor skandha
but unstained wisdom is buddha.
In its knowing, ever serene—
I go for refuge therein.
but unstained wisdom is buddha.
In its knowing, ever serene—
I go for refuge therein.
Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
Dzogchen is part of secret mantra, so no. In other words, it is part of "tantra."
The three inner tantras are generally practiced in union.Now, maybe what I'm talking about is not dzogchen proper at all, but anuyoga or some lower level. If so, it seems fine to practice where I happen to be now, as it seems to be what I need. And perhaps, in the fullness of the fourth time, the practice of dzogchen will be open to me. Any reflections?
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Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
Acquainted with tantra, yes.
However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?
However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?
Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
Stillness and movement are the same state.the.eleven wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 am Acquainted with tantra, yes.
However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?
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Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
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Stillness and movement are the same state.
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Samantabhadra
Stillness and movement are the same state.
[/quote]
Samantabhadra
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Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen
(/insert rimshot).Malcolm wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:18 amStillness and movement are the same state.the.eleven wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 am Acquainted with tantra, yes.
However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")