Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

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Spelare
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Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

Post by Spelare » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:52 pm

It seems to me that, though the emphasis in dzogchen is on spontaneity and uncontrivedness, awareness of luminosity and visions is more likely to come about when one has engaged in intentional visualization at the level of tantra. One is not actively constructing at the time that they manifest, but the fact that one has trained in that way opens one to that possibility.

Maybe this is dead obvious to many here, but I am only now recognizing the natural importance of tantric sādhana to dzogchen. Before the connection was merely theoretical, and I was skeptical. But now I wonder: is dzogchen truly realizable without some acquaintance with tantra?

Now, maybe what I'm talking about is not dzogchen proper at all, but anuyoga or some lower level. If so, it seems fine to practice where I happen to be now, as it seems to be what I need. And perhaps, in the fullness of the fourth time, the practice of dzogchen will be open to me. Any reflections?
Neither person nor skandha
but unstained wisdom is buddha.
In its knowing, ever serene—
I go for refuge therein.

Malcolm
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:59 pm

Spelare wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:52 pm
But now I wonder: is dzogchen truly realizable without some acquaintance with tantra?
Dzogchen is part of secret mantra, so no. In other words, it is part of "tantra."
Now, maybe what I'm talking about is not dzogchen proper at all, but anuyoga or some lower level. If so, it seems fine to practice where I happen to be now, as it seems to be what I need. And perhaps, in the fullness of the fourth time, the practice of dzogchen will be open to me. Any reflections?
The three inner tantras are generally practiced in union.

the.eleven
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Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

Post by the.eleven » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 am

Acquainted with tantra, yes.

However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?

Malcolm
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Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

Post by Malcolm » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:18 am

the.eleven wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 am
Acquainted with tantra, yes.

However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?
Stillness and movement are the same state.

the.eleven
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:36 pm

Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

Post by the.eleven » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:11 am

[/quote]
Stillness and movement are the same state.
[/quote]

Samantabhadra

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conebeckham
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Re: Tantra and the Luminosity of Dzogchen

Post by conebeckham » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:18 am
the.eleven wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 am
Acquainted with tantra, yes.

However, would it be incorrect to assert that as long as concepts are proliferating there is no dzogpa chenpo?
Stillness and movement are the same state.
(/insert rimshot).
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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