Existence

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
stevie
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Re: Existence

Post by stevie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:21 pm

Rick wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:30 am
Per Buddhism, what does "to exist" mean? Can this be answered (satisfactorily) without reference to the two truths? If so, please do. :namaste:
Since there are different views in different buddhist traditions there are certainly different meanings of 'to exist'. E.g. some see causality being the basis for existence whereas others say that causality reveals the assumption of existence to be baseless.
As a consequence there must be different connotations of 'to exist' involved because one meaning is compatible with causal dependence within the sphere of some minds while the other meaning is not so compatible with causal dependence in the sphere of some other minds.

your 'Per Buddhism' appears to be not specific enough.

In the context of everyday life ('Dharma in Everyday Life') it may be more relevant what intuitively/habitually happens in one's mind if one says or thinks 'This (or that) exists.' or 'This (or that) does not exists.' which is however only an instance of applying language and conceptuality. So this relevance in the context of everyday life is not restricted to 'to exist' but applies to all expressions of language.

White Lotus
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Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:56 pm

this here now, not me here now... this here now. reality is completely real and yet completely empty. cant separate emptiness from reality. to start with 'this' is it, then if you want this is here, this is there. 1 and yet 1 is consumed. only emptiness and yet totally real.

Muni, you have said... "neither this nor that". this and that are just words, just pointers, they don't touch reality. they point towards it. please Muni say some more about your "neither this nor that", is it totally real and yet empty?

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

Jesse
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Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Existence

Post by Jesse » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:50 pm

It seems like you really need to define what is meant by "existence", I've seen answers pointing to a number of different topics related to existence. Inherent VS inherent existence (non-selfhood), others pointing to "reality" (EG: what is real, or unreal), and a number of other things.

At its core, I think you can say "existence" simply means being aware. An enlightened Buddha is aware, also the lowest being in the universe is just as aware. It's something that doesn't really change depending on knowledge, or wisdom.

By aware, I mean simply: No matter what arises, we instantly know of its presence, regardless of whether that recognition is rooted in ignorance, or wisdom this basic function of knowing, or 'seeing', simply exists.

Everything beyond this simple recognition are conceptual additions. You can't get away from this basic awareness as the root of everything else, so to exist simply means to be fundamentally aware. Without that, nothing else matters, because you can not have anything else without that awareness as a foundation.
The cost of a thing is the amount of what I call life which is required to be exchanged for it, immediately or in the long run.
-Henry David Thoreau

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takso
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Re: Existence

Post by takso » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:54 am

All realities and fallacies are in the mind,
All observations and perceptions are in the mind,
All labelling and stereotyping are in the mind,
What else is not in the mind?
You have a mind, I have a mind, and we all have respective minds, even a rock.

A mind is nothing but a vibrational frequency,
A vibrational frequency is nothing but energy,
Energy is nothing but a concept being conjured up by the mind.
But still, all arguments are trivial because the true culprit is the mind.

Ignorance is in the mind,
Enlightenment is in the mind,
If one could neuter the mind, all things will fizzle out and cease to exist or be,
This is the arising of a new paradigm that is a neutralised state of affairs,
In Buddhism, it is known as nibbāna.
~ Ignorance triumphs when wise men do nothing ~

muni
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Re: Existence

Post by muni » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:01 am

White Lotus wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:56 pm
this here now, not me here now... this here now. reality is completely real and yet completely empty. cant separate emptiness from reality. to start with 'this' is it, then if you want this is here, this is there. 1 and yet 1 is consumed. only emptiness and yet totally real.

Muni, you have said... "neither this nor that". this and that are just words, just pointers, they don't touch reality. they point towards it. please Muni say some more about your "neither this nor that", is it totally real and yet empty?

best wishes, Tom.
Neither this nor that can be explained in a variety as all things I guess. But whatever explained dharma, explains not what cannot be explained. Like you say about pointers.
What pops up right now is that thinking mind knows all kind of things ( seen as separate of itself) and by that this and that arises. Mind-thoughts cling to "apparitions".

While mind seeing into mind cannot be explained, without falling into separation appaerances-emptiness and therefore impossible.

Few inspirational quotes by Tilopa :meditate:
The mind's original nature is like space;
It pervades and embraces all things under the sun.
Be still and stay relaxed in genuine ease,
Be quiet and let sound reverberate as an echo,
Keep your mind silent and watch the ending of all worlds.
Although space has been designated "empty",
In reality it is inexpressible;
Although the nature of mind is called "clear light",
Its every ascription is baseless verbal fiction.
Gazing intently into the empty sky, vision ceases;
Likewise, when mind gazes into mind itself,
The train of discursive and conceptual thought ends..
When not useful, skip please.
Best wishes.
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

White Lotus
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:33 pm

Neither this nor that can be explained in a variety as all things I guess.
"All things", yes, Muni, thank you. 'this' is the universe, 'here'... in Zen, 'this' is used to talk about "all things", though strictly speaking it could be seen as a subjective experience of the objective universe.

if we talk about emptiness we talk about "all things"/tathata. "this"/"here" is the subjective experience of the objective universe. it is a direct experience of Tathata, which is a direct experience of emptiness whether or not you know it.

Am I right in thinking that the two words 'this' and 'that' are not seen by you as ''all things'', because they are a subjective experience and couldn't possibly mean seeing ''all things''. yet I would argue that when you see one thing you see all things, and that seeing ''this'' here now I see all things, except self.

if I say that ''this'' here now is direct experience, it is experience of mind and reality directly seen or heard. if I argue for emptiness I sometimes deny the reality of things. if I argue for reality, I don't deny the emptiness of things. one coin with two sides.

if I say 'neither this nor that', nor any part of the tetralemma (this/that/neither, both, none), am I emphasising emptiness? if I say "this here now" I am emphasising tathata, or suchness, which in my opinion is just as important as emphasising emptiness.

Muni, why do you think that emphasising 'this' or 'that' is unhelpful, when it can give an appreciation of mind and reality. is it too subjective? or not empty enough for you?

ps dear Muni, thank you for you'r last reply. I hope you are well and enjoying the new year!

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Keep your mind silent and watch the ending of all worlds.
so to not rely on words/thought but to directly experience the universe. silence? but if you have experience of no self you cannot abide in words or in silence. you cannot abide anywhere for long, not even in reality which is seen, or in emptiness which is known. they are one. and yet there is no abiding in them.

are you saying that the dharma is unknown and unknowable by words. I would say that words point towards the dharma, but don't embody it, they don't touch it, but nor do they miss it. a finger pointing towards the moon.

please Muni say more about the ineffable nature of dharma, the wordless nature of reality. thanks for the Tilopa quotes.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4741
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:53 pm

Am I right in thinking that the two words 'this' and 'that' are not seen by you as ''all things''
Yes. I meant explanations are in a variety of ways like for whatever to explain 'dharmas', dependent on what helps.

Best wishes White Lotus.
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

muni
Posts: 4741
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:57 pm

say more about the ineffable nature of dharma, the wordless nature of reality.
Lol.

:anjali:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

muni
Posts: 4741
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:17 am

Muni, why do you think that emphasising 'this' or 'that' is unhelpful, when it can give an appreciation of mind and reality. is it too subjective? or not empty enough for you?
Analyzing has its temporary place in Buddhism to help us, for sure. I like for example the quote by Kalu Rinpoche;
We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything.
That is all.
Then what is going to prove what?
What is going to analyse what?
What is going to discriminate what?
What is going to compare? What?
What/where this and that?
are you saying that the dharma is unknown and unknowable by words. I would say that words point towards the dharma, but don't embody it, they don't touch it, but nor do they miss it. a finger pointing towards the moon.
Enlightened Nature, Masters are using words because it is tool that can reach our minds. Then each used word is to help to awaken, no other. As you say they are finger pointing, pointing to all as being moon reflections in the water, to be freed of clinging to extremes subject-object and so free from solid "whatever". Perhaps they are like all kind of helps used till their function exhausts automatically? And then Wisdoms' Compassion automatically starts to help?

:namaste: Please throw this chatter over your shoulder if of no any use. Thank you, White Lotus.
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

White Lotus
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:13 pm

Analysing has its temporary place in Buddhism to help us
What is going to analyse what?
Analysing means using words and concepts, which point towards reality, but don't grasp it. reality can't be grasped, only seen, heard, felt, tasted, touched. but all this is using words as a pointer towards reality. the words don't touch that reality.

if I use the words 'this' and 'that' I have failed to observe things and instead have fallen into words. words prevent me from seeing things just as they are or aren't. so... simply by virtue of the fact that 'this' and 'that' are words they lead to mental elaboration and distract from direct experience.

if there is no one to do the analysing... what's the problem.

so I would say, this and that are helpful in pointing out reality, but reality can only be seen if the words this and that are discarded. reality is this reality, just as it is, but unless I see it, hear it, taste it, smell it, beyond words then I have not seen it. And yet people have always been surrounded by reality and are that reality, whether or not they are something or nothing.

you can sling me over you'r shoulder if you like dear Muni. once someone said to me: "this is it" and I replied, "no it isn't, this is just a word, it doesn't touch reality." unless we use a thorn to remove a thorn, we will be in pain.

if we say "all things" we need to observe all things and not think all things. thinking and words hide the reality of things. but without them we cannot be pointed towards reality. and yet we have always been immersed in reality.

thanks Muni, best wishes, Tom x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
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Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:27 pm

We live in illusion and the appearance of things.
I would say that we emerge from illusion into the reality of things. it is no longer a dream. it is real. visual objects can be grasped by the eye, when before they couldn't be.

There is a reality. We are that reality.
there is a reality. this reality, falling into words. but this means different things for different people. we are that reality and yet not I, me, myself or I am.

When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything.
yes! I think that's how you see it Muni?

That is all.
just words! but important pointers.


so Muni, I agree that this is not it, but believing in these words this is it can be very helpful. what matters is direct experience of the reality you started with.

dear Muni please take out your diamond sword and clarify my ignorance.

best wishes, Tom x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
Posts: 4741
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:29 am

Thank you White Lotus,
if I use the words 'this' and 'that' I have failed to observe things and instead have fallen into words. words prevent me from seeing things just as they are or aren't. so... simply by virtue of the fact that 'this' and 'that' are words they lead to mental elaboration and distract from direct experience.
Guru Rinpoche said stop labelling.
Tilopa: The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals.
Basic space: Labeling takes place in confusion, for what is nonexistent is taken to exist.
if we say "all things" we need to observe all things and not think all things. thinking and words hide the reality of things. but without them we cannot be pointed towards reality. and yet we have always been immersed in reality.
Words are like exit -way out things, but they themselves are not offering freedom from smoke when there is fire in the building. If we hold onto them, is this a disaster. But without them, we come not out in the open fresh air. Words are not liberating themselves, contain no truth themselves but are creations-fabrications pointing to "reality what is not created - not fabricated.

Write 'wisdom - ignorance' on water and their nature is revealed. They are actually same.
Within this ultimate womb of basic space, timelessly and spontaneously
present,
samsara is wholly positive, nirvana is positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, samsara and nirvana have never Existed.

Sensory appearances are wholly positive, emptiness is positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, appearances and emptiness
have never existed.

Birth and death are wholly positive, happiness and suffering are positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, birth, death, happiness, and suffering
have never existed.

Self and other are wholly positive, affirmation and negation are positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, self, other, affirmation, and negation have never existed.
if there is no one to do the analysing... what's the problem.
:smile:
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

White Lotus
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:41 pm

Labeling takes place in confusion, for what is nonexistent is taken to exist.
it is the words that are taken to exist, but infact they are a mirage, a delusion. the time comes however that things do actually exist. this computer is real, completely real. the mind is empty, this is why it is receptive to sensory stimuli. forms have become real. every time I try to label a form I am distracted from the reality that I had at the start of my spiritual journey. it is a return to the beginning.

one begins with reality and as the path develops one passes to emptiness and then neither empty nor real and then back to reality, where one started. there has been no attainment only loss of small self. when one looks at the universe one can say: all this, but not me. this observes, it is not 'me' that observes. I know that these are only words, but they point towards things just as they are. but only point.

when one sees reality there is no one observing that reality. this no one is quite real, it is 'this' and all it observes is 'this'. this here now. observation comes and goes with mindfulness coming and going. retreating from reality into thoughts, getting distracted and then returning to reality.

reality cannot be separated from emptiness. what is empty has crystallised into complete reality and yet is completely empty. I just see reality, who is this I? I cant find it.
Write 'wisdom - ignorance' on water and their nature is revealed. They are actually same.
write 'this' 'that' in granite, they are actually the same, yet different, real. emptiness is completely unreal and yet completely real. it is all things manifesting as real. this is the original perspective. for one who sees emptiness but not fullness there is no reality. for one sees that all is real, but knows that it is empty. there is empty reality. two sides to the coin.

when reality is seen it appears again and again. like stamping a seal on water, but there is no one to abide in it. it is just seen and passes like clouds.

Muni, do you see neither real nor unreal? do you see emptiness? I know you feel you are nothing and so all. that would mean you don't see and yet do see. seeing reality is the mind of the beginner. its no big deal, but an advanced practitioner can't see reality.

what do you see (or hear) my dear Muni?

best wishes, Tom x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

White Lotus
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:56 pm

Self and other are wholly positive, affirmation and negation are positive.
Within the wholly positive expanse, self, other, affirmation, and negation have never existed.
I see no self to call positive, however I would say that this here now is positive. all is positive is an attitude with enlightened emotions... which incidentally I don't have. I am just an ordinary person in this respect. a beginner.

if I say that all things have never existed I tell the truth, but must add the caveat that now they truly exist. non existent existence. two sides to the coin. emptiness is known mentally, reality is seen with the eye of prajna. reality is totally empty. this emptiness is totally reality.

unless someone has the gift of visual prajna and time on the path s/he wont appreciate that all can be 'seen' as either 'real' or unreal' or neither or both.

i just happen to see things as real, but know that they are empty. who knows what comes next. I just know that I wont know. I also know that I don't see reality and yet there is a seeing reality. which most people see. at least most if not all beginners. I am a beginner.

best wishes, Tom x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:52 pm

sees emptiness but not fullness there is no reality

These emptiness -fullness are actually synonyms or there would be blankness, nothingness or voidness only without display or adornments. Thank you!

Contemplative.
Beings born in the six classes through the four avenues of rebirth, moreover,
do not stray in the slightest from the basic space of phenomena.
The universe of appearances and possibilities -
the six kinds of sense objects manifesting in dualistic perception -
appears within the realm of the basic space of phenomena just as illusions
do, manifest yet nonexistent.
Without underlying support, vividly apparent yet timelessly empty,
supremely spacious, and utterly clear, just as it is,
the universe arises as the adornment of the basic space of phenomena.
In same way nature of mind is all embracing.
Mind itself is a vast expanse, the realm of unchanging space.
Its indeterminate display is the expanse of the magical expression of its responsiveness.
Everything is the adornment of basic space and nothing else.
Outwardly and inwardly, things proliferating and resolving are the dynamic energy of awakened mind.
Because this is nothing whatsoever yet arises as anything at all,
it is a marvellous and magical expression, amazing and superb.
:meditate:

Please blow this post in the wind, if it does not inspire or is not useful for practice. However it is what your words emptiness-fullness seems to reflect.
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

muni
Posts: 4741
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Existence

Post by muni » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:22 am

write 'this' 'that' in granite
:smile: In whatever, White Lotus.
in Zen
"No offence offered, and no ten thousand things
No disturbance going, and no mind set up to work
The subject is quieted when the object ceases
The object ceases when the subject is quietened.

The object is an object for the subject
The subject is a subject for the object
Know that the relativity of the two
Rests ultimately on one Emptiness.

In one Emptiness the two are not distinguished
And each contains in itself all the thousand things
When no discrimination is made between this and that
How can a one-sided and prejudiced view arise?" :meditate:
Third Patriarch.

Jesse :
You can't get away from this basic awareness as the root of everything else
_/\_
May I be a guard for those without one,
A guide for all who journey on the road,
May I become a boat, a raft or bridge,
For all who wish to cross the water.

Which human beings are “fortunate and connected?” They are the ones who generate love, compassion, and devotion, as well as the commitment to remain steadfast on the path until all beings are liberated. Venerable Khenpo Rinpoches.

White Lotus
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Existence

Post by White Lotus » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:07 pm

When no discrimination is made between this and that
How can a one-sided and prejudiced view arise?" :meditate:
Third Patriarch.
agreed, no distinction is made between this and that. they are one sameness, and yet they are distinct.
You can't get away from this basic awareness as the root of everything else
yes. awareness not ''this''/''that''? this that is awareness of suchness.
These emptiness -fullness are actually synonyms or there would be blankness,
emptiness is reality. seeing reality I see emptiness. sharp and distinct, like a diamond, completely empty.

my question for myself is, whether emptiness can be seen at the same time as sharpness. when I look for sharpness I see that, when I look for emptiness I see that. though infact all ordinary seeing is seeing emptiness.

If I am to maintain my freedom I have to say that ''this is it'', but also ''this is not it''.

anyway Muni, it is far more interesting to hear what you have to say!
appears within the realm of the basic space of phenomena just as illusions
do, manifest yet nonexistent.
I would say, not as illusions, but as real, solid, sharp like a diamond, yet completely empty. everything is real, everything is empty.

but I am losing focus on my original question: why not ''this/that''? is it because all is empty we cannot really say anything at all. at one time I would have said that. its because now I say all is real/empty. ''this/that'' is emptiness, it is all things. no? reality is emptiness. are you afraid of the word reality? I mean truly real. like a diamond. solid, sharp, distinct and clear.

but besides all my waffling, I am keen to hear how you see/feel things Muni, I have a high regard for what you say. why is "this/that" not suchness? not emptiness. is it attachment to the reality behind the words that you are against?

best wishes, Tom x
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

smcj
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Existence

Post by smcj » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:24 pm

For something “to truly exist” it would have to have a findable unchanging essence that is not made up from parts. If it lacks such a thing it is called “empty” (=lacking a permanent essence).

However that term creates confusion, so I sometimes simply substitute “impermanent”. People get that quickly.
——-
That’s the 2nd Turning take on things (Madhaymaka/Prajnaparamita). If you get into the 3rd Turning you get into “Mind Only” or “Empty of Other” views
1. No traditional Buddhist sect, Tibetan or otherwise, considers deities to be fictional. (DW post/Seeker242)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
4. Shentong] is the completely pure system that, through mainly teaching the luminous aspect of the mind, holds that the fruitions--kayas and wisdoms--exist on their own accord. (Karmapa XIII)

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Rick
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Re: Existence

Post by Rick » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:33 pm

smcj wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:24 pm
For something “to truly exist” it would have to have a findable unchanging essence
Interestingly, a <non-Buddhist> argument for the opposite can be (has been) made: Only that which is changing is real, exists.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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