Knife crimes in England

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amanitamusc
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Knife crimes in England

Post by amanitamusc » Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:35 am

The number of fatal stabbings in England and Wales last year was the highest since records began in 1946, official figures show.
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-47211971

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Tlalok
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Tlalok » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:08 pm

What is interesting about this is that the actual homicide rate is largely unchanged, which means that stabbing is taking up a larger proportion of the total killings. The article suggests this is primarily due to a surge in drug violence, which makes sense when you consider the massive caches of drugs intercepted over the past few years. Less product = more struggle for control.

amanitamusc
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by amanitamusc » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:46 am

Tlalok wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:08 pm
What is interesting about this is that the actual homicide rate is largely unchanged, which means that stabbing is taking up a larger proportion of the total killings. The article suggests this is primarily due to a surge in drug violence, which makes sense when you consider the massive caches of drugs intercepted over the past few years. Less product = more struggle for control.
This puts a new light on the homicide rate.I wonder if more strict knife laws are soon to come?

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Mantrik
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Mantrik » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:27 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:46 am
Tlalok wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:08 pm
What is interesting about this is that the actual homicide rate is largely unchanged, which means that stabbing is taking up a larger proportion of the total killings. The article suggests this is primarily due to a surge in drug violence, which makes sense when you consider the massive caches of drugs intercepted over the past few years. Less product = more struggle for control.
This puts a new light on the homicide rate.I wonder if more strict knife laws are soon to come?
I fear new laws are pointless.

Increased stop and search of those who fit the black gang membership profile may help, as almost all fatal stabbings occur within this group. It is drug-related, but also stems from a 'gangsta' gang territorial mentality they have adopted, as glamorised by rappers etc. It may seem hilarious to us to witness a little kid develop his 'signature swagger' and make gangsta gestures but within a short time he may be asked to prove his worth as a gang member in a stabbing.

Knife amnesties largely result in tiny knives and kitchen knives being handed in by well-meaning people, but these gangs are running around with meat cleavers, 'zombie' knives, and have a network of caches and pre-teen couriers to avoid detection. This has been allowed to proliferate as parenting has been abandoned and police numbers plummeted, exacerbated by fear that profiling will result in accusations of racism. Ironically, the difficulty of obtaining guns makes stabbing the murder method of choice.
'Stabbing' is smetimes a euphemism for having been hacked and slashed to death. There is even a pride in having been 'shanked' by a rival gang and in having murdered in retaliation.

I don't believe poverty is causal. it seems more like 'Lord of the Flies' where in the absence of parental or societal controls, gang mentality rules.
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tingdzin
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by tingdzin » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:22 am

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:27 am
it seems more like 'Lord of the Flies' where in the absence of parental or societal controls, gang mentality rules.
Good insight.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:05 am

FWIW, there has been an upsurge in stabbings in Australia, too. I'm not sure of the causes but I suspect much of the violence is drug-related, as it is in the UK (and the US), and that knives are the weapon of choice for teenagers - perhaps because they are more easily available than guns.

:coffee:
Kim

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Queequeg
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Queequeg » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:14 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:27 am
Increased stop and search of those who fit the black gang membership profile may help, as almost all fatal stabbings occur within this group. It is drug-related, but also stems from a 'gangsta' gang territorial mentality they have adopted, as glamorised by rappers etc. It may seem hilarious to us to witness a little kid develop his 'signature swagger' and make gangsta gestures but within a short time he may be asked to prove his worth as a gang member in a stabbing.

Knife amnesties largely result in tiny knives and kitchen knives being handed in by well-meaning people, but these gangs are running around with meat cleavers, 'zombie' knives, and have a network of caches and pre-teen couriers to avoid detection. This has been allowed to proliferate as parenting has been abandoned and police numbers plummeted, exacerbated by fear that profiling will result in accusations of racism. Ironically, the difficulty of obtaining guns makes stabbing the murder method of choice.
'Stabbing' is smetimes a euphemism for having been hacked and slashed to death. There is even a pride in having been 'shanked' by a rival gang and in having murdered in retaliation.

I don't believe poverty is causal. it seems more like 'Lord of the Flies' where in the absence of parental or societal controls, gang mentality rules.
Back in the days our parents used to take care of us
Look at 'em now, they even f**kin' scared of us
Calling the city for help because they can't maintain
Damn, shit done changed



Well, if the kids there are following the hip hop trends, they're about 25 years behind the curve.

The Brooklyn Biggie was rapping about doesn't exist anymore. The biggest dilemma is whether to get the organic coffee from this shop or the free trade stuff that they have at the place two blocks further away.



Sorry. A little levity.

Better than guns, but, still.

On a serious note - around the time Biggie was rapping about Brooklyn, Rudy Guiliani was implementing a policing program called "Broken Windows" which calls for aggressive policing of minor, quality of life crimes which, the theory goes, creates a sense of order in the community and arrest people on minor crimes - often leading to the apprehension of individuals with warrants for arrest. There was community pushback but it seemed to work. Communities that had been lawless open air drug markets at least forced the drug dealing off the streets (rise of the delivery services This evolved into random stop and frisk programs where the police 'randomly' stopped people and rifled through their pockets and bags leading to another wave of arrests. This program has been discontinued under the current city government because its an obvious violation of civil rights. The broken windows and stop and frisk has evolved into Comstat under the technocrat Mayor Bloomberg which uses real time data to address crime waves as they emerge. What they've found is that crime waves are usually a few really bad individuals. The thing is, their behavior has a disproportionate impact on the neighborhoods creating a sense of lawlessness, which left unchecked snow balls. Anyway, Comstat. Its the use of big data to efficiently direct police resources.

The overall effect is that serious crimes have declined over the last generation, the "bad" neighborhoods are not as bad as they used to be. Along with robust social work approaches to poverty, a lot of progress has been made in NYC. Its still far from perfect, but its a long way from when my dad used to jokingly tell visitors from Japan that the Bronx was bombed during World War II as they drove through fields of burned out buildings and rubble.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Yavana
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Yavana » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:55 pm

Anyone here ever notice how chopsticks are pointy? Like dangerously pointy?

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Queequeg
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Queequeg » Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:02 am

Yavana wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:55 pm
Anyone here ever notice how chopsticks are pointy? Like dangerously pointy?
And you can catch flies with them.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Kim O'Hara
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Posts: 3927
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:09 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:17 am

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:02 am
Yavana wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:55 pm
Anyone here ever notice how chopsticks are pointy? Like dangerously pointy?
And you can catch flies with them.
I can't!

:shock:
Kim

joy&peace
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Re: Knife crimes in England

Post by joy&peace » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:38 pm

Queequeg wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:14 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:27 am
Increased stop and search of those who fit the black gang membership profile may help, as almost all fatal stabbings occur within this group. It is drug-related, but also stems from a 'gangsta' gang territorial mentality they have adopted, as glamorised by rappers etc. It may seem hilarious to us to witness a little kid develop his 'signature swagger' and make gangsta gestures but within a short time he may be asked to prove his worth as a gang member in a stabbing.

Knife amnesties largely result in tiny knives and kitchen knives being handed in by well-meaning people, but these gangs are running around with meat cleavers, 'zombie' knives, and have a network of caches and pre-teen couriers to avoid detection. This has been allowed to proliferate as parenting has been abandoned and police numbers plummeted, exacerbated by fear that profiling will result in accusations of racism. Ironically, the difficulty of obtaining guns makes stabbing the murder method of choice.
'Stabbing' is smetimes a euphemism for having been hacked and slashed to death. There is even a pride in having been 'shanked' by a rival gang and in having murdered in retaliation.

I don't believe poverty is causal. it seems more like 'Lord of the Flies' where in the absence of parental or societal controls, gang mentality rules.
Back in the days our parents used to take care of us
Look at 'em now, they even f**kin' scared of us
Calling the city for help because they can't maintain
Damn, shit done changed



Well, if the kids there are following the hip hop trends, they're about 25 years behind the curve.

The Brooklyn Biggie was rapping about doesn't exist anymore. The biggest dilemma is whether to get the organic coffee from this shop or the free trade stuff that they have at the place two blocks further away.



Sorry. A little levity.

Better than guns, but, still.

On a serious note - around the time Biggie was rapping about Brooklyn, Rudy Guiliani was implementing a policing program called "Broken Windows" which calls for aggressive policing of minor, quality of life crimes which, the theory goes, creates a sense of order in the community and arrest people on minor crimes - often leading to the apprehension of individuals with warrants for arrest. There was community pushback but it seemed to work. Communities that had been lawless open air drug markets at least forced the drug dealing off the streets (rise of the delivery services This evolved into random stop and frisk programs where the police 'randomly' stopped people and rifled through their pockets and bags leading to another wave of arrests. This program has been discontinued under the current city government because its an obvious violation of civil rights. The broken windows and stop and frisk has evolved into Comstat under the technocrat Mayor Bloomberg which uses real time data to address crime waves as they emerge. What they've found is that crime waves are usually a few really bad individuals. The thing is, their behavior has a disproportionate impact on the neighborhoods creating a sense of lawlessness, which left unchecked snow balls. Anyway, Comstat. Its the use of big data to efficiently direct police resources.

The overall effect is that serious crimes have declined over the last generation, the "bad" neighborhoods are not as bad as they used to be. Along with robust social work approaches to poverty, a lot of progress has been made in NYC. Its still far from perfect, but its a long way from when my dad used to jokingly tell visitors from Japan that the Bronx was bombed during World War II as they drove through fields of burned out buildings and rubble.
Wow, thanks for that insight.
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