Words...

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Grigoris
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Words...

Post by Grigoris » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:41 pm

words.jpg
words.jpg (118.09 KiB) Viewed 509 times
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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DNS
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Re: Words...

Post by DNS » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 am

19th century children's saying:

Sticks and stones may break my bones
But names will never harm me.


late 20th century updated version:

Sticks and stones may break my bones but will heal, while words cause permanent damage.

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well wisher
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Re: Words...

Post by well wisher » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:31 pm

Awesome and fun comic posting here Grigoris! haha :twothumbsup:

DNS makes some good point here too, like how more people are more sensitive to words in more recent generations than older ones. Sometimes I wonder if technology like TV shows,video games, internet , phone games, social websites ... etc., are making more people to be introverted and sensitive instead of being more social and resistant to verbal attacks. Over-protective much?
Feels like maybe slander and hate crime protection laws has just gone way overboard and overstepped over free speech. But I guess that is how most business operates anyways: by words of reputation.

Team Sports and group physical activities should be a good counter antidote to these conditions, right?
Maybe it is human condition to satisfy the self-ego and be "socially fit and popular" as much as possible?

It will be nightmare-like scenario when majority of society cannot handle jokes or any curse words anymore, like some episodes in twilight zone.

But then again, forcing humans to abide by "right speech" concepts is totally in line with Buddhist basic principles, even if might seem a bit extreme via the threat of law enforcing fines and lawsuits or even jail time.
Maybe more will follow the noble silence rules now? :shrug:

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Mantrik
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Re: Words...

Post by Mantrik » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:17 pm

DNS wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 am
19th century children's saying:

Sticks and stones may break my bones
But names will never harm me.


late 20th century updated version:

Sticks and stones may break my bones but will heal, while words cause permanent damage.
I prefer the original as it is mind-training for young children. Used in the UK still, and a way to help kids deal with bullying, whether that be shouting or online.
Mind training, confidence-building etc. can make sure damage is not permanent.

The problem we have now with the new 'snowflakes' is that there is encouragement to be offended and seek to hide or complain, rather than learning to deal with verbal attacks. It is even a crime in the UK to offend someone with your speech!
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Re: Words...

Post by joy&peace » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:38 pm

. . .
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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Re: Words...

Post by joy&peace » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:47 pm

Nice post Grigoris - I can feel the metta behind it; but every post after is very wrong.
DNS wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 am
Sticks and stones may break my bones
But names will never harm me.
DNS this is a very false thing that is out there.

Words are much more impactful in the world than you might believe.

Simple case from today's world; Myanmar's violent-inciting monk-in-name-only .... ah I can't even say the name.

Anyway infamous person giving awful speeches against Muslims in the country, saying they do not exist, etc. . . . .

The result as we know, is very bad. Violence, worse than violence -- fleeing, and then, recently, repatriation.

To go back to WWII, we can see similar.

It should be clearly understood that words are very impactful in the world -- An entire war can be started with a single word in fact.

So please, think more before you post this, becauase you are perpetuating something that is quite false. It may seem academic or such -- and perhaps it is, but it's also very real and important.
DNS wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 am
Sticks and stones may break my bones
But names will never harm me.
I know you are saying something else as well, but it is not very clear for the most part, and seems like this is what you are saying.
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha

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DNS
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Re: Words...

Post by DNS » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:24 pm

joy&peace wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:47 pm
I know you are saying something else as well, but it is not very clear for the most part, and seems like this is what you are saying.
I provided both quotes, the original and an updated version. I didn't make a value judgment of which is better, just thought of those sayings since they are connected to the OP.

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well wisher
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Re: Words...

Post by well wisher » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:31 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:17 pm

I prefer the original as it is mind-training for young children. Used in the UK still, and a way to help kids deal with bullying, whether that be shouting or online.
Mind training, confidence-building etc. can make sure damage is not permanent.

The problem we have now with the new 'snowflakes' is that there is encouragement to be offended and seek to hide or complain, rather than learning to deal with verbal attacks. It is even a crime in the UK to offend someone with your speech!
I agree with Mantrik here, If verbal abuse basically unavoidable to avoid verbal abuse in life because of inter-personal conflicts over differing views, concerns or even material greed,.. etc.,
then I believe some de-sensitivity mind-training against hateful words and condemnation might be necessary.
At least that way, one can avoid lashing back in continuous back-and-forth yelling without substance, and even avoid violent revenge actions. This also helps one reduce one of the root poison "anger".

It does not mean always ignoring other's concerns or requests though.
One should at least try to consider why others make such rebuke, and maybe try to address it if reasonable,
like maybe ask the other person exactly why.
But also be careful not to go too far into excessively seeking verbal abuse, into "masochism" self-abuse territory, that would not be productive either. But at least some coping strategies are definitely needed.

I know by my own experience, in my school years how necessary this training or reasonable de-sensitization is, as I had experienced conflicts with schoolmates and former step-moms and step siblings, etc.
And even recently on this very internet forum, I have been condemned as a Mara by a moderator for spouting allegedly heretical views against some teachings which kills the Buddha ! :lol: :tongue:
Too bad I did not react so well in all the past cases, so I am in fact still doing this training.

Currently I find below view very useful to help avoid negative reactions from verbal abuse:
That all words and labels are intrinsically empty by themselves, as words by themselves does absolutely nothing if there is no sender nor receiver for the communication.
Then one must carefully observe how the reaction rises in ones' own mind when sending/receiving such word via mindful awareness, then let it all go and see how that reaction dissipate by itself, etc. I think that is a good starting method to do so.

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