BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

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anjali
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by anjali » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:56 am

Queequeg wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:38 am
...
When Kamala Harris and Corey Booker and Kirsten Gillibrand start with their focus group tested lines at the debates...
I just can't wait for all the vapid focus group tested lines designed to appeal to (or at least not offend) potential voters. :zzz:

I watched Kamala Harris when she did her townhall on CNN a while back. My first thought was, this is just too damn early for the election cycle be starting. I'm already feeling election fatigue! (or maybe it's PTSD from the last election)

I'm predicting that early leaders' popularity is going to peak too soon, and someone else in the pack is going to eventually be the Democratic nominee.

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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by DNS » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:12 am

Daizan wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:35 am
I think Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez should run, just to completely freakout conservatives. :tongue:
She's too young, only 29 years old. You need to be at least 35 to be eligible to run for POTUS. She'll be 30 on election day next year, still too young. Year 2028 is the first time she could run, if she's interested.

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如傑優婆塞
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by 如傑優婆塞 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:17 pm

Where's Whoopi?
On sick leave. I have a feeling that ole Bernie will be side stepped again like the last time around... But who knows what the Land of the Free will be capable of next... :sage:

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Queequeg
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:07 pm

anjali wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:56 am
I just can't wait for all the vapid focus group tested lines designed to appeal to (or at least not offend) potential voters. :zzz:
They think we want to elect a human rorschach.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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Anders
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Anders » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:43 pm

Wayfarer wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:26 pm
From an outside observer, Bernie Sanders seems at best a quixotic choice. He is too old, for starters. That's not ageism, it actuarial - the odds of a guy at his age enduring the rigours of office for a full term. And he's never going to impress the business-oriented voters. So to me, he represents a noble failure, misplaced idealism, wishful thinking. Democrats really have to rally behind a candidate with a chance of winning.
If Trump proved anything it is that wishful thinking can win elections and that status quo politicians are not representative of the voter base anymore.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

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Queequeg
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:55 pm

Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

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SonamTashi
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by SonamTashi » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:48 pm

Bernie and Warren are my top choices, but at the end of the day, in the general election I'm voting for whoever wins the primary.

I ended up writing Bernie's name in last time (living in Utah, it didn't make a difference either way), but this time around I think the most important thing is to just get Trump out of office. Bernie might have the best chance at doing that. On the other hand, last time around he benefited from being "not Hillary" in a race that really didn't have any other names in it. This time around there will be a lot more competition, so time will tell whether his popularity will remain high (I think it probably will, but not as high). Another thing to consider is that Bernie hasn't had to face as much of the national crucifixion that happens to any Democratic Party candidate (often through Republican mudslinging and fear mongering). Last time around it was almost as if Republicans didn't actually consider him a threat, so you ended up getting soundbites of Trump saying positive things about Bernie when doing so aided his attack of HRC.

If Bernie makes it to the general election, get ready for a steady stream of "the socialism" fear mongering. The younger generations might be generally okay with that, but there is still a lot of irrational fear of socialism around. I know some former Bernie voters who were recently fervently trying to tell me how evil the "socialist Democratic party is" and how they're going to "ruin the country with socialism." Frankly, I don't know how they missed it when Bernie himself said he was a socialist, over and over again, but they somehow did. Now they watch far-right wing Youtube videos and rail against socialism. The very same policies that they loved when Bernie promoted them now get them raging.

They're not very smart individuals, but it really shouldn't be discounted how many people are so easily manipulated by irrational fear, hatred and propaganda. It is the entire reason Trump won in the first place. Any Democratic candidate will get bashed by the right, but there is clearly a long history of very effective socialist-bashing in America, and it will be the first thing Republicans turn to if Bernie wins. Age really is another serious problem, but perhaps not so much if he chooses a good VP. I still think he has the best shot of winning, but by the end I doubt his popularity will be so incredibly high.
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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:58 pm

Berne presidential bid announcement


Bernie the beast.



Bernie, FDR, & JFK


Bernie's extended interview on CBS This Morning


Bernie interview on The Young Turks
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🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
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Queequeg
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:15 pm

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:58 pm
Berne presidential bid announcement

Bernie the beast.

Bernie, FDR, & JFK

Bernie's extended interview on CBS This Morning

Bernie interview on The Young Turks
Thank you for that.

You watch that, and then you watch almost all the other candidates and its clear who the authentic candidate is. The one who can be relied on 100% to do what they say they're going to do.

Contrast: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/opin ... ooker.html
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

tingdzin
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by tingdzin » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:02 pm

We need new blood. All the McConnells, the Pelosis, the Sanders are not going to go beyond their tired inside-the-box rhetoric. Obama won because he was intellectually flexible, smart, and had something new to offer. Trump (unfortunately) also won because he confounded the Republican establishment's groomed candidates and said what working-class voters believed had not been heard before.

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Queequeg
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:48 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:02 pm
Sanders ... tired inside-the-box rhetoric.
I wish Sanders was a tired inside-the-box voice.

I'm no fan of Pelosi, but the way she whooped Trump in that shutdown fiasco was very impressive. No rookie could have pulled that off.

Obama won because the Republicans had just crashed the economy. A ham sandwich could have carried the Democratic ticket. It was nice to break the color barrier, but if you look at Obama, the positives about his tenure were not that he introduced anything particularly new. He also played that Rohrchach thing where you cultivate mystery by being quiet. People start projecting all kinds of stuff on to you. If anything, he repeatedly abdicated the lead to others. He might actually be comparable to Eisenhower who is remembered for having steadily steered the the country without drama. That's not negligible and I would welcome a return to that over the present situation.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

tingdzin
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by tingdzin » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:02 am

I agree with you generally, but about Obama not trying anything new, remember that his first day in office, McConnell said that his (McConnell's) first priority was in seeing that Obama served only one term. Obama had plenty of ideas and initiatives, but the Repubs in the Senate were not going to give him an inch, and resorted to the most shameless naked political tactics to make sure he couldn't get anything done, even things with bipartisan support like infrastructure. The same situation might face Sanders, even assuming he were electable and elected.

I don't think Obama was playing a political game ("that Rorsach thing") by being quiet; it was part of who was, and in fact his understated demeanor was off-putting to a lot of people who wear their opinions on their shirt sleeves, who like their politics loud and emotional, and who think thoughtfulness is a sign of either condescension or stupidity. He was without doubt the most intelligent (as opposed to clever) and well-spoken man I've seen in the office for as long as I can remember, and I'm pretty old.

The problem with Pelosi (one of the problems) is that, while people are needed to butt heads with buttheads like McConnell, the Republicans equally affirm that they need people like McConnell to fight doctrinaire limousine lefties like Pelosi. So we get nowhere.

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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:31 am

tingdzin wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:02 am
I agree with you generally, but about Obama not trying anything new, remember that his first day in office, McConnell said that his (McConnell's) first priority was in seeing that Obama served only one term. Obama had plenty of ideas and initiatives, but the Repubs in the Senate were not going to give him an inch, and resorted to the most shameless naked political tactics to make sure he couldn't get anything done, even things with bipartisan support like infrastructure. The same situation might face Sanders, even assuming he were electable and elected.

I don't think Obama was playing a political game ("that Rorsach thing") by being quiet; it was part of who was, and in fact his understated demeanor was off-putting to a lot of people who wear their opinions on their shirt sleeves, who like their politics loud and emotional, and who think thoughtfulness is a sign of either condescension or stupidity. He was without doubt the most intelligent (as opposed to clever) and well-spoken man I've seen in the office for as long as I can remember, and I'm pretty old.

The problem with Pelosi (one of the problems) is that, while people are needed to butt heads with buttheads like McConnell, the Republicans equally affirm that they need people like McConnell to fight doctrinaire limousine lefties like Pelosi. So we get nowhere.
It will be interesting to see how history judges Obama.

One thing I will never forgive is that he came into office with the capital class on its heals, desperate for bailouts, and he had both houses of congress, and critically, a prevalent narrative that the capital class foaming at the mouth with greed put working class people out on their asses. A little populist narrative there could have gotten a lot. That was in incredible opportunity to put the screws to the 1% and extract some concessions in the social contract. I felt like we needed an aggressive horse trader - if only Obama had the cojones of LBJ.

Instead, nobody, other than some hapless nobody, went to prison for crashing the economy. The 1% got their bailout, and then begrudgingly let a half assed healthcare bill pass.

McConnell didn't have the power to mess with Obama until after the dems lost control of congress. Dems should have pushed and taken what ground they could get, and then worry about holding ground later, instead of trying to get bought Republicans on board - that was a pipe dream. IIRC the healthcare bill was party line anyway.

If its not Bernie, then I want someone who 1) sees we need fundamental changes and 2) is willing to fight for it. So far, he seems to be the one with the clearest vision and will to put in the fight. I think most Americans understand we need to make some hard turns. Its going to be a fight, and its going to be ugly, but the status quo is just not tenable. We have no choice but to change course. Otherwise, this whole thing will end badly.
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

amanitamusc
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:43 am

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:31 am
tingdzin wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:02 am
I agree with you generally, but about Obama not trying anything new, remember that his first day in office, McConnell said that his (McConnell's) first priority was in seeing that Obama served only one term. Obama had plenty of ideas and initiatives, but the Repubs in the Senate were not going to give him an inch, and resorted to the most shameless naked political tactics to make sure he couldn't get anything done, even things with bipartisan support like infrastructure. The same situation might face Sanders, even assuming he were electable and elected.

I don't think Obama was playing a political game ("that Rorsach thing") by being quiet; it was part of who was, and in fact his understated demeanor was off-putting to a lot of people who wear their opinions on their shirt sleeves, who like their politics loud and emotional, and who think thoughtfulness is a sign of either condescension or stupidity. He was without doubt the most intelligent (as opposed to clever) and well-spoken man I've seen in the office for as long as I can remember, and I'm pretty old.

The problem with Pelosi (one of the problems) is that, while people are needed to butt heads with buttheads like McConnell, the Republicans equally affirm that they need people like McConnell to fight doctrinaire limousine lefties like Pelosi. So we get nowhere.
It will be interesting to see how history judges Obama.

One thing I will never forgive is that he came into office with the capital class on its heals, desperate for bailouts, and he had both houses of congress, and critically, a prevalent narrative that the capital class foaming at the mouth with greed put working class people out on their asses. A little populist narrative there could have gotten a lot. That was in incredible opportunity to put the screws to the 1% and extract some concessions in the social contract. I felt like we needed an aggressive horse trader - if only Obama had the cojones of LBJ.

Instead, nobody, other than some hapless nobody, went to prison for crashing the economy. The 1% got their bailout, and then begrudgingly let a half assed healthcare bill pass.

McConnell didn't have the power to mess with Obama until after the dems lost control of congress. Dems should have pushed and taken what ground they could get, and then worry about holding ground later, instead of trying to get bought Republicans on board - that was a pipe dream. IIRC the healthcare bill was party line anyway.

If its not Bernie, then I want someone who 1) sees we need fundamental changes and 2) is willing to fight for it. So far, he seems to be the one with the clearest vision and will to put in the fight. I think most Americans understand we need to make some hard turns. Its going to be a fight, and its going to be ugly, but the status quo is just not tenable. We have no choice but to change course. Otherwise, this whole thing will end badly.
You make some good points on Obama Matt.He talked a good talk before the election and when he had the chance to do something
he limped on through.
Bernie has more integrity in one sentence than Obama had in his whole hollow echo of a career as potus.

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Queequeg
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:57 pm

Bernie Live
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

tingdzin
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by tingdzin » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:39 am

Queequeg wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:31 am
It will be interesting to see how history judges Obama.

One thing I will never forgive is that he came into office with the capital class on its heals, desperate for bailouts, and he had both houses of congress, and critically, a prevalent narrative that the capital class foaming at the mouth with greed put working class people out on their asses. A little populist narrative there could have gotten a lot. That was in incredible opportunity to put the screws to the 1% and extract some concessions in the social contract.
I sometimes feel this way, too, and I wish he had been a lot nastier with those people when he had the chance. On the other hand, it's easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback and forget just how precarious the situation was. Also, drubbing the wealthy, however much they deserved and deserve it, and however emotionally gratifying (a lot) it might have felt briefly, might have hurt the populace at large in the long run -- I am just not in a position to judge. Maybe the superwealthy had cards they weren't showing (they usually do). As you say, it will be interesting to see what history's verdict is, if one is still around to read it.

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Wayfarer
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Wayfarer » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:05 am

[voice from the bleachers] HEY BERNIE’S WINNING ME OVER.

I want to believe.
No wisdom can we get hold of
No highest perfection
No Bodhisattva, no thought of enlightenment either
When told of this, if not bewildered and in no way anxious
A Bodhisattva courses in the Tathāgata's wisdom.

Prajñāpāramitā Sutra ~ Conze Translation

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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by catmoon » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Bernie Sanders as seen from Canada...

Had the last election been held in Canada, Bernie Sanders vs Donald Trump, Bernie would have won with about 90% of the vote.

To Canadians Bernie appears as a mildly leftist candidate. But the whole American political spectrum is shifted well to the right of us, so we have to wonder if Bernie Sanders is electable in such a political climate.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.

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Queequeg
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by Queequeg » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:43 pm

Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Lotus Sutra, Expedient Means Chapter

There are beings with little dust in their eyes who are falling away because they do not hear the Dhamma. There will be those who will understand the Dhamma.
-Ayacana Sutta

SunWuKong
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Re: BERNIE! BERNIE! BERNIE!

Post by SunWuKong » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:26 pm

Bernie never was, never is a Democrat. Why he does thinks Democrats should support him? You can't blame the Democrats for his lack of success. He picked the wrong team.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

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